BDSM is abuse and rape culture, The Sixth Siren joined Fetlife to prove it

TRIGGER WARNING for explicit and disturbing content

My first hour on Fetlife and I was already finding predatory behavior. I went on to start and contribute in discussions and some of the things I heard people saying made my stomach turn. There are things that the website claims to ban, but it’s obvious they don’t enforce it. Incest, beastiality, and pedophilia are not allowed but the forums are littered with discussions about these fetishes. There are members who point out that the website doesn’t really enforce their rules all the time. I’m just going to make a list of comments and discussions I actually saw on here, and I saved them to my computer so these are word-for-word.

  • There is a forum for people who get turned on by actual news stories of rape. “Documentaries about sex trafficking are just the best. Not only do you get tearful interviews with the victim, they’re practically how-to videos for the aspiring collector or entrepreneur.” Or “I absolutely LOVE the thought of old men taking advantage of/raping little girls.. the reasoning behind it is that I love the idea of wanting someone SO BADLY that they just can’t stop, no matter how sick it it – they just HAVE to touch them and take their innocence away.” Someone even said “these people just had to the guts to follow what comes naturally to them, nothing that ends in an orgasm can be bad.” Yuck.
  • One forum is so people can talk about their perfect society and what laws they would abolish. Literally every single person that answered wanted forms of abuse to be legalized. Rape, sexual harassment, domestic violence, verbal and physical abuse were mentioned by every responder. One even said that they wanted it to be legal for men to “abuse cunts to death,” and people agreed. Another person said that they don’t think rape is wrong because “it’s been around since the dawn of time and we just live in a society that says it’s wrong.”
  • There is a forum for female subs to talk and one section was discussing when their dom punishes them when they aren’t supposed to. Like, if they aren’t in a 24/7 dom/sub relationship sometimes the dominant forgets and punishes the girl anyways. Most of them talk about how they did something that made their boyfriend mad and he punished her. Hitting, pepper spray, and shoving things in the girls mouth were all examples I read. And the sad thing is that these girls all said that they deserved it and shouldn’t have made him mad.
  • To me the most problematic group was on that talked about raising their daughters to be submissives. Men and women both saying that if they have daughters they would teach them from an early age that they are inferior to men and that they need to be submissive to males sexually and otherwise. Some even talk about how it’s their fantasy to have their “own little fucktoys in the house.” And this is seriously a response I got for speaking out against it. “Honestly if he is going to fuck my daughter it wouldn’t make much of a difference. I’d rather know about it and be there to make sure everything is safe!!!” Disgusting mentality.
  • The most active group I had discussions in was one saying women should have no rights. Most posters think that women shouldn’t even have the right to say “no,” when it comes to sex. “A woman should NEVER have the right to say no. It’s her duty to be sexually available to men whenever.” Some say that the only value women have is to be a “cook, maid, and whore to her man.” Viewing women as nothing but property was the reoccurring theme here.
  • “Anorexia – The Closer to the Bone the Sweeter the Meat,” is another group on Fetlife. It’s a group that is for anorexics and people who are sexually aroused by them. But the group also says that they allow “people with bulimia and other forms of self-harm and low self esteem.” It’s mostly a bunch of posts of girls asking if they should stop eating or how much they should lose. And of course all these men are telling them that they should be anorexic and should be thin enough to see bones. Of course they request that they get to see pictures of the process. This honestly pisses me off, convincing women to starve themselves and damage their bodies just to get off.

It’s interesting that the arguments I always see defending BDSM is that “it’s consensual,” or that “nobody actually wants to rape someone or have sex with children, it’s just fantasy.” Clearly that’s not how everyone thinks and this website proves it. I’m especially curious about the people who think that a perfect society is one were rape and abuse is legal. Mainly because the big argument is BDSM is about consent, but if all rape was legal it wouldn’t be about consent, would it?


By The Sixth Siren, posted on Kink-Shamers Unite

The Sixth Siren also adds on her own blog:

Honestly I left a lot out, I could probably double this with all the stuff I had saved to my computer. Race Play was equally disturbing. People wanting to “beat a n*****,” but claimed they weren’t racist in any way. Or the people talking about how they would let a convicted sex offender into their life, even if they had kids. Saying that the danger would be a turn on. I could go on and on, and some of the things I read will be etched into my brain for a long time.

64 responses

  1. I am sad that there are women who are in so deep, they can not climb out.

    And even worse, they believe they jumped in on their own.

    There is no way to get them to see they were pushed.

  2. I am a dominatrix. I do not humiliate, abuse or give pain to anyone – even if he wants it. There is a branch of BDSM which is considered ‘soft’ and that’s what I practice. I do what I wish with men (within the limits as above) and if they choose not to comply, we part and I’ll never see him again. Despite what you may see online (most of which are trolls) there are rules.

  3. So what?

    That does nothing to disprove that men use the BDSM scene to abuse women, and saying that women speaking out about their abuse are ‘trolls’ makes you part of the problem.

  4. I’ve been on Fetlife for two years, and I’ve never seen ANYTHING like what’s described here. It is definitely possible to navigate the site and never see this sort of crap. I’m sure there are nut jobs anywhere if you go looking for them. What’s described here is a microcosm of the BDSM community that is in no way representative of my experience, or that of anyone I’ve ever talked to.

  5. Imagine Hamish McDonald, a Scotsman, sitting down with his Glasgow Morning Herald and seeing an article about how the “Brighton [(England)] Sex Maniac Strikes Again”. Hamish is shocked and declares that “No Scotsman would do such a thing”. The next day he sits down to read his Glasgow Morning Herald again; and, this time, finds an article about an Aberdeen [(Scotland)] man whose brutal actions make the Brighton sex maniac seem almost gentlemanly. This fact shows that Hamish was wrong in his opinion but is he going to admit this? Not likely. This time he says, “No true Scotsman would do such a thing”.

    Antony Flew, from the Wikipedia definition of the ‘No True Scotsman’ informal fallacy

    I notice that you only went for the softer targets, don’t you have anything thing to say about this post, or this one?

  6. […] radfem joined Fetlife to see what their culture is like. The results are, […]

  7. To the “investigator” (the6thsiren?):

    It’s clear from this post why someone who isn’t into BDSM, or was into a single “shallow” section of it is not the best person to objectively do a thorough and reliable look into it. The concerns you raise here are very partial and a one-sided view of the matter. While many may find it permissible to spill the details of their dirtiest fantasies online and have others that share the same fantasies join them in some virtual platform to get off together, the real life BDSM scene is highly controlled and most of those people know where the boundaries lie and how to respect them.

    Because I am a male submissive, another part of BDSM that’s very much alive but you seem to quite conveniently forget or intentionally ignore in your account here is Femdom. Of particular concern to me has been online Findom and other such kind of stuff going on within Femdom because men are exploited by women that never seem to give a s**t that these men have lives and that the compulsions of a submissive man (just as with those of submissive women) sometimes work towards the destruction of their lives. Men need protection from such predatory women. Indeed, there are some authentic online Dommes that do condemn such extortionists but still much needs to be done by the online BDSM community to ensure some form of protection for guys into Findom. Moreover, I have been witness to performances where women purposely hurt men to the level of even cutting them up simply because the men consent to it and the women either get off on it or are paid for it.

    There are just so many aspects of BDSM that may need attention but your simplistic perspective here is more of a reflection of a confirmation of a bias you very probably had before you even began the “investigation”. To understand BDSM and be able to find out if there is any justification in judging it as promoting abuse and rape culture (against women as with maledom or against men as with Femdom), you need a more systematic approach and a more balanced and wide treatment of it. Also, the last time I checked, the people that have ever managed to capture BDSM in its rawest form have almost entirely been people who have spent years in the scene and have sampled the extremely wide variation of behaviors, fantasies, fetishes, individuals, settings and challenges within it. You’d need to write a book and spend years of research to arrive to the conclusions you’ve so hastily drawn here.

    I’m sorry for the criticism but it’s just that I felt it’s not a very fair and accurate presentation of the complex and multifaceted entity that is BDSM. I apologize in advance for any mistakes made. Thank You.

  8. Your argument is entirely contradictory.

    First you claim that it’s all fantasy and everyone respects boundaries, and that there is no abuse in the BDSM ‘scene’, then you talk about men being abused by women being a serious problem – so which is it, is it abusive or not?

    Is it really realistic to believe that there is no abuse of women, but rampant abuse of men?

    “Moreover, I have been witness to performances where women purposely hurt men to the level of even cutting them up simply because the men consent to it and the women either get off on it or are paid for it.”

    Hang on, isn’t this just an example of ~safe, sane, consensual~ BDSM? How dare you claim that this is abusive, you obviously don’t know anything about BDSM and have a bigoted bias against this thing you know nothing about. If men consent to be cut up, and want to be cut up so much that they will pay someone to do it, how dare you call that abusive!

    [Sarcasm/]

    Also, are you really surprised that the women who are paid to carry out men’s sick, misogynistic, entirely self-involved (otherwise they wouldn’t have to pay for it) fantasies, might not actually like those men very much?

    “the compulsions of a submissive man […] sometimes work towards the destruction of their lives”

    Hmm, but when I talk about BDSM being unsafe and unhealthy, I’m accused of being a bigot.

    So what do you want from me here exactly? Do you think it’s my responsibility to somehow fix this? It can’t be fixed, this is what it is, ritualised, eroticised abuse, it’s foolishness to imagine that it could be safe, ‘safe abuse’ is an oxymoron.

    I’ve written and reblogged lots of posts on BDSM and I have addressed male submissives before. I reblogged this post from The Sixth Siren (I have no idea if she reads this blog or not, so addressing her directly is pointless), and it is valid for what it is, she joined Fetlife, and reported on her experiences there.

    Every BDSMer thinks anything negative is misrepresentation, and their bit of the BDSM ‘scene’ is different, but the accounts of abuse just keep on coming. It’s not like abuse outside of the BDSM ‘scene’ is actually all that rare, and cover-ups aren’t all that rare either – there is a lot of abuse in the world, full stop.

    Every BDSMer thinks BDSM is so complicated, it isn’t, it’s the status quo, inequality, abuse, and misogyny, in concentrated form.

  9. I know that your previous arguments with other pro-BDSM folk may predispose you to certain expectations of what I am supposed to say, but please make a point to grant my comments some reasonable level of understanding before replying (and even quoting them).

    “First you claim that it’s all fantasy and everyone respects boundaries, and that there is no abuse in the BDSM ‘scene’”

    Nope, I never in any part of my comment claimed this. The part that came close (but still is very far from) the absurdity of such a claim as you accuse me of making was:

    “real life BDSM scene is highly controlled and most of those people know where the boundaries lie and how to respect them.” {“most” being the important word here and no claim of lack of abuse is implied anywhere in the comment}.

    “Hang on, isn’t this just an example of ~safe, sane, consensual~ BDSM? How dare you claim that this is abusive, you obviously don’t know anything about BDSM and have a bigoted bias against this thing you know nothing about. If men consent to be cut up, and want to be cut up so much that they will pay someone to do it, how dare you call that abusive!”

    You do realize that exactly the same comment can be made of the “tortures” or punishments that female subs pass through? The same sarcasm so to speak. This is especially true as can be deduced from the6thsiren’s observation that “the sad thing is that these girls all said that they deserved it and shouldn’t have made him mad.” Moreover (and if you are an avid observer of the scene you’ll testify to this), I have also seen acts of highly questionable health impact being done on proven consenting adult females.

    Bearing in mind the statement I made in the opening of this comment, I find it rather curious and somehow ridiculous why you’d accuse me of calling you a bigot when I did no such thing (projection?) and further maintain statements to the effect that I advance the view that BDSM lacks any abuse.

    In case you missed the point I was driving at in my comment, the point was that when it comes to submission, the male sub and the female sub are in more or less the same place, at the mercy and feet of their desires and their mistresses and masters. While majority of BDSM situations I have observed in my past have been well controlled and the dom(me)s have never abused their subs’ devotions by causing them harm, some situations, for both male and female, have been very questionable and in dire need of attention (e.g. the Findom example and some extreme forms of torture for both women and men). My main point of criticism was the fact that the6thsiren went on a personal experience (not a formal and well balanced and controlled study) and somehow, from this subjective journey, managed to come to the conclusion that “BDSM is abuse and rape culture” (or is this you?). Her bias is obvious from the fact that she gives no observations whatsoever of the entire scene. She completely omits men’s position in the scene (such that one not familiar with BDSM may even think that there is no form of male abuse within).

    And before you dare to suggest that women abuse is more prevalent or worse than men’s abuse within the BDSM community, please do search for, or conduct an objective study of, it and present the findings to me because words just won’t cut it. Words, subjective experiences and opinions usually just end up in people holding strong convictions and defending them to the end with no way to validate them. It’s what the6thsiren’s conclusions are: just views drawn out of personal experiences; views that contradict those I have. The only decisive factor of who’s right would be the results of an objective and thorough study into the matter.

    “Every BDSMer thinks BDSM is so complicated”

    I don’t know what to think of such a “strong” statement except that you may not have thought about it well before posting it (I mean… EVERY?? No wonder you have some preconceptions on what my views should be, rather than carefully understanding what my views actually are). Think about it and while you’re at it, try looking into historical views of human sexuality among experts in the area. Then come and tell me how simple it is (with the references you’ll have read).

  10. “You do realize that exactly the same comment can be made of the “tortures” or punishments that female subs pass through? The same sarcasm so to speak.”

    Umm, do you know what sarcasm means?

    “I find it rather curious and somehow ridiculous why you’d accuse me of calling you a bigot when I did no such thing (projection?) and further maintain statements to the effect that I advance the view that BDSM lacks any abuse.”

    I pointed out the contradictions between saying BDSM was mostly ok (‘most’ can be 99%, so ‘most’ is a minimising term), and then saying that abuse against submissive men was a real problem. The ‘scene’ cannot be both ‘mostly’ ok, and also at the same time have a serious problem.

    As for the term ‘bigot’, yes, you never used that word, but plenty of other BDSMers have.

    As for the rest of your comment, you’re still minimising, saying it’s mostly ok (“the majority”), and otherwise, so what? What’s your point? What do you want from me? What do you expect me to do about it?

    “I don’t know what to think of such a “strong” statement except that you may not have thought about it well before posting it (I mean… EVERY?? No wonder you have some preconceptions on what my views should be, rather than carefully understanding what my views actually are)”

    Umm … this is what you wrote: “There are just so many aspects of BDSM that may need attention but your simplistic perspective here is more of a reflection of a confirmation of a bias you very probably had before you even began the “investigation”. To understand BDSM and be able to find out if there is any justification in judging it as promoting abuse and rape culture (against women as with maledom or against men as with Femdom), you need a more systematic approach and a more balanced and wide treatment of it. Also, the last time I checked, the people that have ever managed to capture BDSM in its rawest form have almost entirely been people who have spent years in the scene and have sampled the extremely wide variation of behaviors, fantasies, fetishes, individuals, settings and challenges within it. You’d need to write a book and spend years of research to arrive to the conclusions you’ve so hastily drawn here.”

    If that isn’t you claiming that BDSM is ‘complicated’, what is it? I’ve written about BDSM quite a lot on this blog, I always get people in the comments claiming that I just don’t get it, that it’s too complicated for my ~simplistic analysis~ (which is exactly what you’ve done here).

    Also, BDSMers call non-BDSMers ‘vanilla’ implying boring or ‘flavourless’, also implying the opposite for BDSM, so yes, I do feel justified saying all BDSMers think BDSM is ‘complicated’.

    “Think about it and while you’re at it, try looking into historical views of human sexuality among experts in the area. Then come and tell me how simple it is (with the references you’ll have read).”

    Which experts are those then, the ones who prove what you already believe? Orgasms aren’t actually all that complicated, which is, really, what I think is so laughably tragic about BDSM, all that extra work for something that is so easy. Since orgasms are easy, all the ‘complexity’ of BDSM must be about something else – power and control perhaps? Which is exactly what the patriarchal mainstream is about too.

  11. IF someone WANTS to be submissive it is her RIGHT to be one. is that so hard to admit?

    What is your issue with a women(obviously the existence of submissive men would contracdict your belief that BDSM is a mysogynestic practice so lets conviently ignore it) who wants to accept her submissive nature? Should all women must see life exactly as you do?

    Broaden your mind a little and try to think it people shouldnt be allowed to live life as they want.

    you think BDSM is too much work for something so simple as an orgasm and that it must really be about power and control. Yeah so? whts so teribly wrong with that ? If you think that people who engage in such lifestyles go about their lives thinking EVERY women they see on the street must be treated like a slave then you are just kidding yourself. People who have long term BDSM relationship tend to have such strong trust which would overwhelm most vanilas(its just a term, get over it) in fact tbh i sometimes pity the wives and girlfriends who spend years being suspicious of thier partners. BDSM has such monogomus relationships… But it doesnt fit with the anti bdsm propganda does it? so find the phedophiles and the rapists in the community and then claim that that is what BDSM in general is all about. if anything i have found the women tend to be extremly careful while talking to someone and sharing informations. the subs look for a person whom they can trust fully before leting go.

    And one thing which you dont seem to care for at all is the burden of reponsibilties on the dom. it is not easy taking complete responsibility of another human beign. but of course if one thinks BDSM is all about orgasms and power play then this aspect of the lifestyle will never be ponderd about.

    i met a girl who after geting to know me completly surrenderd her life to me. Her soul body and mind. I am the one who looks after her. After all aspects of her life. my question to you is then why should it bother the likes of you? Why cant you let her and me live our lives the way we want to? We arent saying you should be like as are we?

  12. “IF someone WANTS to be submissive it is her RIGHT to be one. is that so hard to admit?”

    People choose to do all kinds of things that are harmful. On a philosophical level, yes, people do have the right to self-harm, but what isn’t ok is that other people take advantage of those self-destructive impulses.

    “What is your issue with a women(obviously the existence of submissive men would contracdict your belief that BDSM is a mysogynestic practice so lets conviently ignore it) who wants to accept her submissive nature? Should all women must see life exactly as you do?”

    If you’re going to try to make claims about me, it helps if you actually read this blog first:

    https://antipornfeminists.wordpress.com/2014/08/04/qotd-for-them-it-was-a-fun-game-to-get-their-dicks-hard-to-because-once-it-was-over-they-were-able-to-take-off-their-costume-and-return-to-the-role-of-man/

    And surely I have the RIGHT to question why it is that so many women ‘choose’ to be submissive?

    “you think BDSM is too much work for something so simple as an orgasm and that it must really be about power and control. Yeah so? whts so teribly wrong with that ? If you think that people who engage in such lifestyles go about their lives thinking EVERY women they see on the street must be treated like a slave then you are just kidding yourself.”

    Did you read the above post? It describes men and women who think exactly that.

    Also, see here:

    https://antipornfeminists.wordpress.com/2014/08/06/i-deserved-this/

    “People who have long term BDSM relationship tend to have such strong trust which would overwhelm most vanilas(its just a term, get over it) in fact tbh i sometimes pity the wives and girlfriends who spend years being suspicious of thier partners. BDSM has such monogomus relationships… But it doesnt fit with the anti bdsm propganda does it? so find the phedophiles and the rapists in the community and then claim that that is what BDSM in general is all about. if anything i have found the women tend to be extremly careful while talking to someone and sharing informations. the subs look for a person whom they can trust fully before leting go.”

    Hmm, well other people, people whose accounts of the BDSM ‘scene’ I find much more reliable than yours, suggest otherwise:

    https://antipornfeminists.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/surprise-surprise-the-bdsm-scene-is-as-much-a-patriarchal-victim-blaming-rape-culture-as-the-rest-of-our-patriarchal-victim-blaming-rape-culture/

    https://antipornfeminists.wordpress.com/2014/09/19/in-other-words-thats-a-50-increase-in-likelihood-you-will-be-sexually-assaulted-and-all-you-have-to-do-is-join-the-bdsm-community/

    And how does monogamy make it all ok? Monogamy just suggests women who are the victims of Stockholm Syndrome/trauma bonding.

    “And one thing which you dont seem to care for at all is the burden of reponsibilties on the dom. it is not easy taking complete responsibility of another human beign. but of course if one thinks BDSM is all about orgasms and power play then this aspect of the lifestyle will never be ponderd about.”

    What a load of self-serving bull-shit! Yes, having a willing slave must be such a burden, poor poor you!

    “i met a girl who after geting to know me completly surrenderd her life to me. Her soul body and mind. I am the one who looks after her. After all aspects of her life. my question to you is then why should it bother the likes of you? Why cant you let her and me live our lives the way we want to? We arent saying you should be like as are we?”

    It bothers me because you’re the one here making all these unsubstantiated claims – what proof do I have that she really is safe and happy? Why are you commenting here and not her? Do you allow her contact with the outside world?

    And believe it or not, me writing this blog isn’t actually stopping you doing anything. In this comment thread here:

    https://antipornfeminists.wordpress.com/2014/07/03/qotd-liberalism-and-the-death-of-feminism/#comment-9072

    I wrote that I didn’t think BDSMers should be locked up in re-education camps ‘for their own good’.

    If your BDSM relationship is so good, why do you care what I think about it? Are you maybe afraid that your ‘sub’ might read this blog and engage in some critical thinking?

  13. I find it rather interesting that you seem to believe that your view is the only view in regards to BD/SM. Are there issues within communities such as Fetlife? Yes, no different than the issues in the vanilla world. There are extremes in all facets of life.

    As a collared sub I will state I am very happy with the choices I have made for myself. Is this lifestyle for everyone? No. Does it give you the right to try and belittle or limit my choices? Again no.

    I personally do not care what happens in your bedroom as long as it is something you have consented to. There in is the true issue, consent. No matter the act if consent is given you and no one else has the right to judge it.

  14. The thing is, here’s how opinions work: everyone thinks their opinion is the correct one, and defends their opinion as correct, that’s what having an opinion is. Of course I think I’m right, who defends an opinion they don’t believe in?

    I have every right to express my opinion, just as you do, and I will say what I have said many many times on this blog already, just because you choose to do something, doesn’t mean it isn’t harmful.

    Also, saying BDSM in no different to the ‘vanilla world’ (there’s no such thing as a ‘vanilla community’ there’s just patriarchy, with BDSM being a sub-set there-of), isn’t true; a study carried out by a ‘scene’ PR group (ie industry insiders) found a 50% higher incidence rate of rape.

  15. You seem to have missed a huge part of my comment. I did not say the the BD/SM community is flawless. I did however say there are extremes in all facets of life.

    As for the term vanilla that is a simplistic term to describe anyone who is not in the kink or BD/SM communities. It is not meant to be insulting, just a way to differentiate without long definitions or explanations.

    You also assume that my choices have been harmful to me. I get that given what you have focused on within the world of BD/SM. To be honest my reality has been very different than what you perceive the entire community to be like. I have had several vanilla relationships that were by every definition of the term abusive. My husband, who is also my Master, respects me for who I am and supports me in everything. I can not say that about anyone else.

    I admit that everyone’s experience will be different. I am also the first to tell people interested in the lifestyle that there are many who will prey on them if they are not careful. A lot of what I tell people is no different than the common sense things I was taught as a child about strangers and going out to bars or parties.

    Perhaps it is just differences in personal views. I am just not one to belittle another person’s choices no matter how they may differ from mine. As long as they are safe and happy that is truly all that matters to me.

  16. “I did not say the the BD/SM community is flawless.”

    I never claimed that you did, I just pointed out that an in house survey garnered statistics showing 50% more rape than in the non-BDSM ‘scene’.

    “I did however say there are extremes in all facets of life.”

    That doesn’t really mean anything. Pointing out one BDSM abuser, then one non-BDSM abuser as if that equalises things is nonsense. It’s the numbers that count, and as above, and elsewhere on this blog, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the BDSM ‘scene’ is a haven for abusers, more so than outside the BDSM ‘scene’.

    And even if you do want to just look at ‘extremes’, has there ever been a serial killer whose behaviour wasn’t sadistic? Could there be such a thing as a ‘vanilla’ serial killer?

    “As for the term vanilla that is a simplistic term to describe anyone who is not in the kink or BD/SM communities. It is not meant to be insulting”

    Bollocks it is! You, personally, may like to think that, and that’s certainly the PR line, but that’s not what happens in the real world. Look here, at a BDSMer making shit up about me:

    “I have no problem if missionary style once a month for 5 mins makes you ecstatically happy.”

    Now what is that if not saying that anyone who is anti-BDSM (ie ‘vanilla’) is a boring prude?

    Other BDSMers are even more obvious than that:

    “I can guarantee that my sex life is much more exciting than yours.”

    Again, this is saying that ‘vanilla’ = boring.

    “You also assume that my choices have been harmful to me”

    The thing is, you could be anyone. You could be some sad-sack basement-dwelling dudebro back here for the nth time with the nth new IP address. You could be trauma-bonded to a violent man. You could be giving an accurate, objective assessment of your circumstances, in which case great for you, but that doesn’t change the fact that the BDSM ‘scene’ is overall more abusive than the non BDSM ‘scene’, and is patriarchy in concentrate.

  17. I see you enjoy putting words in people’s mouths. Perhaps I was wrong in thinking there could be a civil conversation with a true exchange of ideas, viewpoints, and information.

    Your assumptions in all honesty just show that I have totally wasted my time and that the extreme feminists have no want for women to make choices for ourselves but to make choices you personally agree upon.

  18. “I see you enjoy putting words in people’s mouths.”

    Um, how is directly quoting other people putting words in their mouths?

    “Perhaps I was wrong in thinking there could be a civil conversation with a true exchange of ideas, viewpoints, and information.”

    Well, “a true exchange of ideas, viewpoints, and information” would involve you actually addressing the many points I’ve made, but instead you are now just name-calling.

    “Your assumptions in all honesty just show that I have totally wasted my time and that the extreme feminists have no want for women to make choices for ourselves but to make choices you personally agree upon.”

    Where am I telling you, or any woman, that you must do anything? I’m pointing out all the evidence of abuse in the BDSM ‘scene’; you don’t like that so you cry ‘extremist!’ (while finger-wagging at me for not being 100% civil to misogynist men).

  19. Neo Ex Machinae

    This article, your responses, and the absolute, raging insanity you spout whilst completely negating every differing opinion make me want to vomit. It’s people like you that stigmatize the rest of us. Alice, up there, really tried: tried to speak calmly, rationally, and with composure. But you’re so chock-full of buzzwords that apparently the gods left you no room for common sense. “Patriarchy misogyny rape culture trauma-bonding RAAAAA!” These concepts have individual value, but using them to make the BS a “social justice” issue devalues them completely.

    Yes, my reply is emotionally-based. I am revolted by people who do the online version of “Naa Naa, I CAN’T HEEEEEAR YOUUU!” If you’d given ANY indication, in post or in comments, that you were willing to discuss, attempt to understand, or anything of the sort, I wouldn’t be so livid. But you just blow off EVERY. OTHER. VIEWPOINT as “wrong”… with faulty logic.

    See, the thing is, you can’t argue, or even debate, with an extremist. Because as soon as you make any valid point, instead of responding they throw buzzwords at you as if it changes anything, and switch ground as soon as they don’t have a valued, reasoned response. This is why, even though I used to answer BDSM questions on a public forum, I will not even bother attempting any sort of discourse. I found this link by accident via Google… and thought it HAD to be a satire. How wrong I was.

    Look up the “10 Commandments of Logic”. You break them all.

    You’re not an expert. You’re not a researcher. You’re not a first-hand participant. You’re someone picking and choosing “facts” to make a (rabid) point, and your fallacy is in your own statement: “of course everyone thinks their opinion is the right one”. Opinions =/= fact. No matter how desperate you are to make it look that way. Opinions can be changed, discussed, modified. And no matter how many links you selectively post, that doesn’t void out the actual truths that exist. You’re the same thing that’s wrong with that horrible f***ing “50 Shades” crap: you assume that the majority of BDSM folk are damaged/unhealthy/abusers/”trauma-bonded”(really?)/sick/whatever. And that makes you part of the problem. No actual education can ever take place sprayed with fanaticism. You just seek to inflame. With me, you’ve succeeded, but probably not how you meant to.

    Good luck.

  20. You have actually indeed been projecting what has happened from personal experience in the past onto what others’ say, so yeah, that’s kind of the definition of putting words in people’s mouths. Even in more normal relationships there is always a partner that is more dominant or passive than the other about what to do in their lives even without regard to sex. These examples were cherry picked off a random site and are not actually a valid study or proof. Do I deny there are abusive and sick people in the BDSM scene? No. Do I also deny that those that prefer ‘normal’ sexual relationships also contain abuse? No, it can happen in all walks of life and to all sorts of people, be it man or woman. Being submissive does not mean you are participating in self-harm. There are so many degrees of it because everyone is an individual, and that is what we must remember here, even you are an individual and I respect your concern for these women, I am concerned myself by subs that do not assert themselves and allow the rules to be broken, it is a saddening thing. I am not an avid participator in the scene, I don’t like more of the extreme things, I do enjoy in a sexual relationship switching between dominant behaviour and submissive behaviour. There are always boundaries and I expect my partner to respect me and treat me like an equal human being – to see me as a person more than a sex object, even if I enjoy him being masterful. You are not pointing out all the evidence – you went on one website, and cherry picked the crazy stuff, nor did you capture your screen and refer to sources of any kind. That ultimately is my problem here, you lack a coherent foundation for your postulations. I am a feminist, I support myself being equal to a man, but I also support my right to choose whether or not I want to be on the top or bottom, and whether or not I want to stay home and raise a family instead of having a career as a life choice. I really hope instead of becoming argumentative you have a true discussion with me, I would be happy to have a discussion about the things you’ve said in fact, instead of what I’ve seen so far. You seem intelligent and passionate for abused women and that -is- a good thing. I do however feel though that you aren’t giving everything said equal consideration when discussing and writing, and that sort of thing is needed when addressing social issues at large. Thank you for your time.

  21. To claim any/all type of bdsm is abusive is kind of a ridiculous claim. Some assholes on the internet do not prove this. You’ll find predators on sites like okcupid just as you will on fet-life. I’ve honestly been on both and I had a harder time with okcupid. On fet-life though, i never ran into anything like whats depicted above (this dose not mean it didn’t happen–only that we had different experiences).
    I will not deny that abuse happens within the bdsm community, but it also happens outside of it. By your logic of: ‘Abuse exists so it all must stop’ you should also be speaking against sex and relationships in general.
    I am all for stopping abuse. I am not for telling others that they’re happiness is fake because…..’PATRIARCHY’! You do realize that submissive men and dominate women exist too right? Lets not forget same-sex couples who engage in the life/play style as well? Even if you want to make the claim its all abuse (which is an arrogant/ignorant claim to make), you have to accept that its gender neutral.

    I am a submissive woman. My partner and I practice safely and I am happier than I could ever be. I find it incredibly offensive that people will tell me that i’m being raped or abused when i’m willingly engaging in something and enjoying that activity. As if how I feel about my own situation doesn’t matter. You know who else it is disrespectful too? People both in and out of the community who are true victims!

    Also one last thing, i was skimming the comments on my way to leaving own and I found this:

    “And believe it or not, me writing this blog isn’t actually stopping you doing anything. In this comment thread here:

    https://antipornfeminists.wordpress.com/2014/07/03/qotd-liberalism-and-the-death-of-feminism/#comment-9072

    I wrote that I didn’t think BDSMers should be locked up in re-education camps ‘for their own good’”
    Well do you not have mercy? prey-tell, what would you do with us then?

  22. Neo Ex Machinae,

    Your comment is hilarious, because it is one long rant where you accuse me of not being able to argue, when you yourself haven’t put forward a single argument (as in “a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory”), just called me names!

    If I break all the “10 Commandments of Logic”, then you should easily be able to demonstrate where I have done so.

    It’s also hilarious that you accuse me of not listening to people who disagree with me, when (misogynist men telling me how much they hate women aside) I nearly always read and respond to what someone has said in detail (again demonstrate where I haven’t done that), I’m even responding to parts of your rant in detail, which is more than it deserves.

    “Opinions =/= fact. No matter how desperate you are to make it look that way.”

    I have never claimed that opinions are the same as facts, exactly the opposite in fact. I have repeatedly pointed out that if people what to prove I am wrong, they have to do more than simply say that I am wrong; I back up my opinions with evidence and sound reasoning always, which is more than you have managed to do here.

  23. MaryJane,

    I directly quoted what two people had said about BDSM vs. ‘vanilla’ sex, directly quoting someone is the exact opposite of putting words into their mouth.

    Fetlife is not a ‘random site’ it is a major networking site (according to Wikipedia, it has over 3,000,000 members).

    If you are going to cry ‘cherry-picking’, your own life is a cherry picked example, and one that hold much less weight than even a single subject-group on Fetlife, especially when you say that you are “not an avid participator in the scene.”

    Let me make something clear here, since I am sure you haven’t bothered to read around on this blog to see what I actually think on any other subject: I do not think the ‘mainstream’ is safe, or good, or nothing bad ever happens there (I have a category called ‘we live in a rape culture’, as of typing it has 409 posts, there are only 114 posts in the ‘Anti-BDSM’ category), I never have and never will defend the patriarchal mainstream. BDSM is not actually distinct from the patriarchal mainstream, both eroticise dominance and inequality, BDSM just does it in concentrated form.

    When I criticise BDSM, I aim to emphasise two things, the increased likelihood of abuse within the BDSM ‘scene’, and the fact that the eroticisation of dominance and inequality is harmful regardless of how enthusiastically someone participates in that eroticisation.

    I am not the Sixth Siren, I reblogged her in good faith, and I have seen similar claims from women who have been in the scene. I don’t screen-cap everything I see on the internet (that is an impossible demand), but here are two posts which link to the original sources which show the same kind of thing, also there is this post, and this one, and this one, which are worth reading.

    I am a radical feminist, I want to liberate women from patriarchy, I have no interest in making myself equal to men under the status quo; which men should I make myself equal to? The rapists, the batterers, the child-pornographers? Should I make myself equal to the men in power who have ruined the economy, not stopped environmental destruction, started wars?

    You talk about equality, but get off on inequality, how does that work (beyond the magic of ‘choice’)? Why do you see sex as something completely separate to the rest of your life, and subject to a different ethical standard?

  24. stray,

    I’ve answered most of your points already in my reply to MaryJane.

    I am not saying your happiness is fake, just that something can be both pleasurable and bad for you (a junk food diet for example). Also, we are conditioned into female submissiveness from birth (think Beauty and the Beast for example), of course going along with the status quo is going to feel good, conforming always does, why does my questioning of the status quo make you so angry if you are so secure in your choices?

    “You know who else it is disrespectful too? People both in and out of the community who are true victims!”

    I think you will find women who have exited the BDSM scene , are saying similar things to me.

    It’s a shame your skimming didn’t get you as far as this post before you tried the submissive men/femdom canard out on me (in fact I linked to that post already in this thread)

    “Well do you not have mercy? prey-tell, what would you do with us then?”

    Why are you so desperate to prove that I want to make you do anything? I am expressing my opinions on the internet, and backing them up with sound arguments.

    Radical feminism will be here for you when you need it.

  25. “I am not saying your happiness is fake, just that something can be both pleasurable and bad for you (a junk food diet for example).”
    Fair enough but then where is your anti-junkfood blog? Also a lot of things that are bad for you are still okay in moderation. Junkfood (which was your own example) being one of them.
    There are several things that can be considered dangerous, that are still revered as some of the best things ever: most organized sports and sky diving for example. Safety precautions must be taken in order to do these things. Do you advocate against these things too? Or at least hold the opinion that it should all stop? According to you safety precautions, limits, and boundaries combined with consent and enjoyment aren’t enough to do something.
    “Also, we are conditioned into female submissiveness from birth (think Beauty and the Beast for example), of course going along with the status quo is going to feel good, conforming always does, why does my questioning of the status quo make you so angry if you are so secure in your choices?”
    For one, Bdsm isn’t status quo. the fact that a community exists and there are a lot of people who choose to be there or try it out dose not make it the norm rather than non bdsm people. Saying bdsm is status quo is the same as saying same sex couples are the majority over hetro couples. Obviously that’s not true or we wouldn’t have the lgbtq movement. The very fact that your pulling this ‘you’ve been conditioned’ card is exactly what i was talking about when I said you were calling peoples happiness fake. You can’t claim that you be-leave women (or people in general) should be free to make there own choices while simultaneously crediting every choice they make to patriarchy because it doesn’t fit in with your redorick on what makes a free woman. That is cult mentality.
    I assure you i’m the exact opposite of what I was told be:
    I was told to wear pants when I wanted to wear skirts and dresses
    I was told to keep my hair long when I wanted to cut it short
    I was told to keep my hair natural when I wanted to dye it black
    I was told to be hetro-sexual when my orientation is bisexual
    I was told to be christian when i’m pagan
    I was even told I couldn’t date someone outside of my own race or gender
    I could go on, but i honestly don’t think I need to. I never listened to any of this even in my teenage/child years. Tell me how i’m conforming to anything when i went against what I was literally told to my face what to do? I’m sure if I told these same people I was into bdsm they would tell i shouldn’t be just as you are.

    ““You know who else it is disrespectful too? People both in and out of the community who are true victims!”

    I think you will find women who have exited the BDSM scene , are saying similar things to me.”

    I don’t deny that people who have bad experiences with bdsm would end up not liking it. That doesn’t give you the right to tell people who consent that they’re being raped.
    Rape is literally sex without consent. That means consent stops it from being rape,
    You don’t get to re-define this because you don’t like something. If the people talking to you that happen to be victims don’t see why their being disrespected when you lump people who are enjoying themselves with people who aren’t. Then they may not understand the definitions of rape and consent which would make me wonder if they’re really victims. This is because you would think the stop rape and abuse campaigns would be focused on those who don’t consent vs. those who do. I would think that victims would want those like them being prioritized over people who are perfectly fine. Also the link you gave me didn’t send me to anyone claiming to be a victim, but rather bashing those who disagree with their view.

    “It’s a shame your skimming didn’t get you as far as this post before you tried the submissive men/femdom canard out on me (in fact I linked to that post already in this thread)”
    Why would I have gotten to that post when its not even in this thread? My reaction was to what was posted here. Though I suppose i might have clicked the link if i saw it. This post ignored same sex couples (which i also presented). I the post makes absolutely no sense.
    She was dominating a man to please him. So because he got pleasure its misogyny. While at the same time when a man dominates a woman for her pleasure its not misandry?
    You can’t have it both ways. Either a sub is being abused despite consent or not. Which I would go with not due to my own experience and the experience of people I’ve talked to and know in real life.

    Again there are abusive people in the bdsm community but they exist outside of it as well.
    “Why are you so desperate to prove that I want to make you do anything? I am expressing my opinions on the internet, and backing them up with sound arguments”

    I’m not desperate to prove anything to you. I just expressed my opinion just as you are. It’s just that most people wouldn’t come up with something like that unless it was already in there mind somehow and you seem to think that we’re soo dangerous to ourselves. You claim all doms in existence are abusive rapists and all subs in existence are victims weather there happy or not.
    Why would you not want to come up with a solution for that? You won’t be able to eradicate bdsm by running a blog and yet it seems thats what you want to do.

  26. I apologize for the poor grammar in some parts.

  27. stray,

    If your next comment is as long as the one @12:59, I am deleting it unread, I do this blog in my very limited spare time, you are not entitled to this much of it.

    Asking where my anti-junkfood blog is trite, there is already plenty of info out in the mainstream about healthy diets, I do not need to blog about it. Where’s your anti-junkfood blog?

    I think if you bothered to actually read this blog properly, you would understand what I actually think about BDSM, I think you are being deliberately obtuse because you think it is the same as making a clever argument, it isn’t.

    BDSM is the status quo because violence, dominance and degradation are the status quo, BDSMers like to think they are ‘transgressing’ in some way, but they are not.

    “You can’t claim that you be-leave women (or people in general) should be free to make there own choices while simultaneously crediting every choice they make to patriarchy because it doesn’t fit in with your redorick on what makes a free woman.”

    Of course I can. It is entirely consistent to say that people should be free (within certain limits) to make bad choices. We are bombarded with messages about what to be and do every day, some of it sticks, some of it doesn’t; unless you want to get into a deep philosophical and/or neuro-scientific discussion about the nature of free will, you are going to have to accept that the choices we make are influenced by our environment.

    “I assure you i’m the exact opposite of what I was told be:”

    From your list, it looks like you had a very traditional, conservative up-bringing, and you rebelled against that by choosing another set of ‘rules’ to follow (bisexual, pagan goth into BDSM is as much of a cliché as Bible-reading house-wife).

    “I’m sure if I told these same people I was into bdsm they would tell i shouldn’t be just as you are”

    Where am I telling you you MUST do anything?

    “That doesn’t give you the right to tell people who consent that they’re being raped.”

    Where have I said that?

    “If the people talking to you that happen to be victims don’t see why their being disrespected when you lump people who are enjoying themselves with people who aren’t. Then they may not understand the definitions of rape and consent which would make me wonder if they’re really victims.”

    Wow, so anyone who doesn’t follow your line on BDSM is lying about being a victim? That’s some pretty disgusting victim blaming you’ve got going on there.

    “Why would I have gotten to that post when its not even in this thread?”

    It’s very clearly linked to in this thread, and very obviously in the context of someone else trying to tell me I’ve never heard of female dommes, you might have seen it and avoided embarrassing yourself by repeating the accusation.

    “She was dominating a man to please him. So because he got pleasure its misogyny. While at the same time when a man dominates a woman for her pleasure its not misandry?
    You can’t have it both ways. Either a sub is being abused despite consent or not.”

    That is a far too simplistic summery of the post and following comment thread, I am not going to reiterate the whole thing here, but I suggest you go back and read it again.

    Let me spell something out for you: we live in a patriarchy. What men, all men, want, is obedience; some men want you to be a good Christian/Muslim/Hindu girl, other men want you to be a ‘slut’, but they all want you to do what they want. Female subs and female dommes both fit into that paradigm of doing what men want which is why female dommes are still a part of patriarchy.

    “You won’t be able to eradicate bdsm by running a blog and yet it seems thats what you want to do.”

    I don’t think I’m going to eradicate anything just by writing a blog (where have I claimed otherwise?). I am realistic about what one person can achieve, I am not dictator of the world – so what is your actual point here?

  28. “Let me spell something out for you: we live in a patriarchy. What men, all men, want, is obedience; some men want you to be a good Christian/Muslim/Hindu girl, other men want you to be a ‘slut’, but they all want you to do what they want. Female subs and female dommes both fit into that paradigm of doing what men want which is why female dommes are still a part of patriarchy.” So apparently absolutely no choice a woman makes is her own? And literally everything that ever happens is a mans fault? wow you just proved my point about not wanting to let people make there own choices. Take some responsibility for yourself, huh? “Wow, so anyone who doesn’t follow your line on BDSM is lying about being a victim? That’s some pretty disgusting victim blaming you’ve got going on there.” I’m sorry, I didn’t mean it that way. Let me rephrase with a question: why would a victim be okay with people trying to rescue those who unlike them are happy with where they are? (I am talking of course abusive situation vs. non situation). Anyway I think i’ll stop here because apparently responding to your points makes me seem ‘entitled’. Despite the fact that I disagree with you strongly disagree with you. I still want to thank you because without your blog I wouldn’t have found my account again after 5 years.

  29. Thank you very much for this post. The rage and “indignation” that you have caused among abuse-apologists (BDSMers) only serves as evidence of the measures they will take to flood dissent in order to protect their “right” to blood, tears, cuffs, whips, cuts and slashes.

    Their “right” to human violence hidden behind the corruption of consent.

  30. stray,

    I can answer any and all points you care to make, what I refuse to do is be an essay on demand service – you say BDSM is all about respecting boundaries, but get sniffy when I impose my own.

    “So apparently absolutely no choice a woman makes is her own? And literally everything that ever happens is a mans fault? wow you just proved my point about not wanting to let people make there own choices.”

    From the comment you left here, you grew up in a community where you were always told what to do. You then swapped it for another community where you would be constantly told what to do, and now you are desperate to ‘prove’ that I am telling you what to do – you seem to have a great need to be told what to do.

    Seriously though, point to where on this blog I have said anyone must do anything. Do you think that if you goad me enough I’ll crack and admit to being a mustachio-twirling super-villain with an underground lair and plans for global domination, and this blog is the first step in that plan for global domination?

    We are influenced by our environments and upbringing, recognising that is not the same as saying there’s no such thing as free will.

    “Let me rephrase with a question: why would a victim be okay with people trying to rescue those who unlike them are happy with where they are? (I am talking of course abusive situation vs. non situation).”

    Again, where am I doing that? Do you understand the difference between engaging with someone’s argument and bashing a straw [radical feminist]? Because nothing you’ve said so far indicates that you do.

  31. Thank you for your comment edamim!

  32. “I can answer any and all points you care to make, what I refuse to do is be an essay on demand service – you say BDSM is all about respecting boundaries, but get sniffy when I impose my own.”

    that long comment was simply responding to what you said in response to my original comment. Everything I said was a response to a quote. You then make a response equally as long right after telling me that you would delete my comment if it was just as long. It would have had to be to respond to everything you said.

    “From the comment you left here, you grew up in a community where you were always told what to do. You then swapped it for another community where you would be constantly told what to do, and now you are desperate to ‘prove’ that I am telling you what to do – you seem to have a great need to be told what to do.”

    you do realize that not everyone in the bdsm community chooses to do 24/7 right? I for one do enjoy a little power exchange, but my partner knows how far is too far. I told you I don’t care about proving anything. If I was really desperate to prove something I could have gone on about stuff you said about my list (such as assuming that I was ‘goth’ because of my hair dye for example).

    “We are influenced by our environments and upbringing, recognizing that is not the same as saying there’s no such thing as free will.”

    No its not. However your claim is that bdsm is always abuse, while simultaneously insisting that the female is the victim no matter what. It would seem that according to you, even if he’s the abused, she’s still the victim (and you accuse me of victim blaming. At least I know that anyone can be a victim regardless of gender). Also if your claiming that patriarchy is the only influence ever and nothing else goes into play then yes, that is the same as saying free will doesn’t exist (at least for women). You may not be telling me specifically what to do. However your very title claims that i and others like me are promoting abuse and rape. You seem to think that going on one website for one hour is enough to prove that its ALL BAD. You seem to think that victims and abuse existing within the community means everyone under the bdsm umbrella is either abusive or a victim, without recognizing that the same thing happens in regular relationships. If you did recognize this then your claim would throw the abuse/rape promotion umbrella on them too. So long as everyone within the relationship is happy and consenting to whatever dynamic they choose. Its not up to you or anyone else to tell them that they’re doing something wrong.

  33. stray,

    I formatted your comment for you, I don’t know why you started taking out the paragraph breaks, it doesn’t make your comment shorter, just harder to read (surely you understand that the length of a piece of writing is the word count, not the area it occupies measured in centimetres).

    For someone who said they were going to stop, you where back here very quickly to start commenting again.

    “that long comment was simply responding to what you said in response to my original comment […]”

    Yes, yes, yes, I’m replying to you and you’re replying to me, on and on and on. What I would prefer, generally, from everyone, is that they make a point, and make it well, then it can be discussed intelligently, and after that another point can be discussed (it’s not like I’m going anywhere). Your comments are rambling, repetitive, poorly written, and half the time you are arguing not with something I’ve said, but something you’ve made up about me.

    “you do realize that not everyone in the bdsm community chooses to do 24/7 right?”

    Please stop wasting my time with ‘do you know [really obvious thing about BDSM]?’ Yes, I do know [really obvious thing about BDSM], I know all the really obvious things about BDSM.

    “I told you I don’t care about proving anything. If I was really desperate to prove something I could have gone on about stuff you said about my list (such as assuming that I was ‘goth’ because of my hair dye for example).”

    Oh I do apologise for calling you a goth, and thank you so much for not derailing this comment thread into a complete dead-end, that’s so considerate of you.

    “However your claim is that bdsm is always abuse, while simultaneously insisting that the female is the victim no matter what.”

    I do think BDSM is abusive, it is harmful regardless of how much the victim wants to be harmed. That opinion is entirely compatible with free will, people can freely choose to do things that are harmful.

    “Also if your claiming that patriarchy is the only influence ever and nothing else goes into play then yes, that is the same as saying free will doesn’t exist (at least for women).”

    Err, no. I haven’t claimed that patriarchy is the only influence, and even if I had, that is still not the same as saying there is no such thing as free will.

    Tell me what you actually think free will means, because you seem to be claiming that admitting to any outside influence on behaviour negates free will.

    “It would seem that according to you, even if he’s the abused, she’s still the victim (and you accuse me of victim blaming. At least I know that anyone can be a victim regardless of gender).”

    Let me explain a few things to you about power dynamics: we live in a patriarchy, that means men (particularly white, middle class men) have more power, more money, more choices.

    We live in a society where women are raised to do what men want, and men are raised to expect women to do what they want. Women are also raised to see their only value as coming from their (sexual) relationships to men.

    These dynamics carry over into BDSM, regardless of what is going on inside any particular BDSM bubble.

    When a man is paying a woman to dominate him (dominatrixes), or paying a woman to submit to him (professional subs or regular prostitution), that dynamic is very different to a woman submitting to a man she relies on for her sense of self-worth, within a BDSM ‘community’ where he is seen as a pillar of said ‘community’, and she knows that if he pushes or violates her limits, everyone else will turn a blind-eye.

    Do I think no man could ever be abused? No, do I think women are never abusers? No.

    That blog post and the following comment thread, the one you claim is me saying men can never be victims, isn’t really about victimisation (of men or women) at all. What it is about is the fact that BDSMers claim that the existence of male subs and female dommes ‘proves’ that BDSM can’t be misogynist; but when the man is getting off on being ‘treated like a woman’, he is getting off on misogyny, so it is therefore misogynist.

    “You seem to think that victims and abuse existing within the community means everyone under the bdsm umbrella is either abusive or a victim, without recognizing that the same thing happens in regular relationships.”

    Oh please, try actually reading this blog, I am highly critical of the mainstream, the mainstream is misogynistic and full of abuse, BDSM is just the same thing but in higher concentration.

    The particular set-up of BDSM makes abuse more likely, and the victim being disbelieved and ostracised more likely. It is a ‘community’ designed to hand over vulnerable people to other people (there, I’m being gender neutral now, are you happy?) who enjoy inflicting psychological and physical violence on them, how is that not a recipe for disaster?

  34. “I formatted your comment for you, I don’t know why you started taking out the paragraph breaks, it doesn’t make your comment shorter, just harder to read (surely you understand that the length of a piece of writing is the word count, not the area it occupies measured in centimetres).”
    Thank you. I realized it was hard to read when I reread it myself. However I’m of the opinion that anything you do with what you type can either lengthen or shorten the product.
    “For someone who said they were going to stop, you where back here very quickly to start commenting again.”
    I was talking about that specific comment. When I get a reply from somebody, I tend to think a response is the good natured thing to do. As it shows you read what they had to say.
    “I do think BDSM is abusive, it is harmful regardless of how much the victim wants to be harmed. That opinion is entirely compatible with free will, people can freely choose to do things that are harmful.”
    I already brought up a point about this which you ignored. Here: “There are several things that can be considered dangerous, that are still revered as some of the best things ever: most organized sports and sky diving for example. Safety precautions must be taken in order to do these things. Do you advocate against these things too? Or at least hold the opinion that it should all stop?”
    “We live in a society where women are raised to do what men want, and men are raised to expect women to do what they want. Women are also raised to see their only value as coming from their (sexual) relationships to men.”
    except when a man dose what a woman wants, you still call it patriarchy. So either way if he gets pleasure or enjoys something (and this doesn’t necessarily need to be sex) he still gets the short end of the stick no matter who decides or asks for what. Also the ‘sex’ thing isn’t true. I’ve met plenty of men who are better than that–including my current partner and some of my platonic friends.
    “That blog post and the following comment thread, the one you claim is me saying men can never be victims, isn’t really about victimisation (of men or women) at all. What it is about is the fact that BDSMers claim that the existence of male subs and female dommes ‘proves’ that BDSM can’t be misogynist; but when the man is getting off on being ‘treated like a woman’, he is getting off on misogyny, so it is therefore misogynist.”
    Not all submissive men do this, but this comment makes me wonder what you think about transgenders? Are they misogynist too?
    “The particular set-up of BDSM makes abuse more likely, and the victim being disbelieved and ostracised more likely. It is a ‘community’ designed to hand over vulnerable people to other people (there, I’m being gender neutral now, are you happy?) who enjoy inflicting psychological and physical violence on them, how is that not a recipe for disaster?”
    I never said stuff like this didn’t happen. Obviously if something happens against your will its tragic and wrong, and your entitled to justice. Again, though It happens outside of this in ‘mainstream’ as well. Though I digress because you claim to criticize that too. The point I’m trying to make is that blanket statements shouldn’t be made. A person can be a dom and respect the limits of the sub. People can be happy and yes, even healthy in that dynamic. Their are plenty of subs (myself included) who don’t consider themselves victims. Those who of us who are happy don’t want to be lumped in with a bunch of creeps. shitty people doing shitty things within any community dose not equal everyone else within that same community being, for lack of a better word: evil (you can apply this to any community not just bdsm).

  35. “However I’m of the opinion that anything you do with what you type can either lengthen or shorten the product.”

    Your opinion here is laughable, try handing in an essay where you increased the font size because the teacher said it was too short – do you think that would work?

    “When I get a reply from somebody, I tend to think a response is the good natured thing to do. As it shows you read what they had to say.”

    You know what, I would be very happy if you didn’t bother.

    “I already brought up a point about this which you ignored. Here: “There are several things that can be considered dangerous […]”

    ‘Dangerous’ and ‘harmful’ are two separate concepts, I believe BDSM is harmful even when all of its (entirely inadequate) ‘safety measures’ are followed.

    “except when a man dose what a woman wants, you still call it patriarchy.”

    No, no, no, seriously, please try to actually understand what I am writing before you come here to make a fool of yourself and waste my time. I wrote very specifically about dommes and subs who are doing what men want them to do, who are often paid by men to do these things.

    “Also the ‘sex’ thing isn’t true. I’ve met plenty of men who are better than that–including my current partner and some of my platonic friends.”

    They are just better at hiding their entitlement. Try telling your partner you don’t want to have sex for a month, see what happens then.

    “Not all submissive men do this”

    DID YOU EVEN READ THAT COMMENT THREAD? I spent a very long time explaining to some idiot dude that it isn’t just about ‘forced feminisation’, that it is about the very concepts of ‘masculine’ ‘feminine’ ‘dominance’ and ‘submission’.

    “but this comment makes me wonder what you think about transgenders? Are they misogynist too?”

    Ha ha ha ha ha, you really are clueless aren’t you? and you obviously haven’t looked at a single other thing on this blog.

    (Also, you are a transphobe, by mainstream transactivist standards, because you are saying that the internal gender identity of a trans person is a fetish.)

    “Those who of us who are happy don’t want to be lumped in with a bunch of creeps. shitty people doing shitty things within any community dose not equal everyone else within that same community being, for lack of a better word: evil (you can apply this to any community not just bdsm).”

    Then actually do something real to get your house in order, instead of coming here to pester me. Turning a blind-eye to abuse, covering up, making excuses, attacking critics, ostracising victims and whistle-blowers, that makes you part of the problem.

    stray, you are a time waster; you are either too lazy or too stupid to actually bother reading and trying to understand what I have written, and unless your next comment contains real evidence of you doing so, I am going to delete it. I will not go round and round in circles with you any more about whether BDSM is harmful or not, whether the creeps are the majority or not, and I am not interested in your nigel.

  36. [comment deleted]

  37. Alice King wrote:
    “My husband, who is also my Master, respects me for who I am and supports me in everything.”

    MaryJane wrote:
    “I expect my partner to respect me and treat me like an equal human being – to see me as a person more than a sex object, even if I enjoy him being masterful.”

    An equal relationship is an equal relationship. It scares me that we have to point this out. A situation in which one person’s relationship to another is based on authority, control, and domination violates the meaning and essence of equality. A person who wants to dominate you does not respect you. You cannot support someone by placing them in a position of subordination i.e. inferiority. Yes, consent is critical and individuals have a right to choose whether or not to participate in these types of relationships. But there’s another side to this: no human being has the right to assume a position of supremacy over another. If they feel the need to do so, they need therapy, not someone to work their anxieties out on. Especially when that person is a man who already enjoys a power advantage over women. It seems awfully odd to me that the people who claim to truly enjoy sex are those who don’t enjoy it when it’s, you know, just sex. Strange, that.

  38. ‘Equality’ and ‘respect’ are just pieces of hollow rhetoric when they are not backed up by real world actions.

    Abusive misogynist men say they ‘respect’ women, and hold them to be ‘equals’, while they engage in behaviour that completely contradicts these claims.

    It’s become another piece of identity politics, men ~self identify~ as ‘respecting’ women, and then feel like they have a free pass for all their abusive behavior.

  39. You pro-BDSM people really need to take a reading comprehension class, get a damn dictionary, and pay more attention to your own lives than to what someone believes about the BDSM “community” in general because if you really were happy and secure in yourselves you wouldn’t be justifying yourselves to some online stranger.

    I only ever dipped my toes into the shallow end of the BDSM pool. I felt stupid and couldn’t take it seriously, so I quit. I can’t fathom the mindset that equates control with love or that could ever drive a person to hit someone they supposedly love. I don’t care if you set rules for it, you’re still abusive control freaks or are obsessed with obeying same.

    As racists love to point out, there were black people who owned slaves in the U.S. Didn’t make slavery right or an “alternative lifestyle choice” and didn’t make the institution any less racist (no one owned whites, after all). No one is going to show up at your door and forcibly stop you from acting like abusive idiots, but the fact you’re here getting all butthurt because the blog author won’t let you mansplain* her into shutting up about you speaks volumes. If you felt OK with your lives you would not be here defending them. Full stop.

    What’s the matter… afraid your abuse-victim supply will dry up? Probably.

    [*A tactic sometimes adopted by “dominant” female patriarchy-supporters as well.]

  40. [EDIT: No, you do not get to come back here after wasting so much of my time and energy before, you are not welcome on this blog; you had a more than generous opportunity, and you wasted it. Go away.]

  41. Pretty damn funny…… You and your minke minded ilk have the same exact views on this as Pat Robertson and The 700 Club! Who knew that feminists and evangelical Christians had so much in common? I mean REALLY…. who KNEW???

  42. Really? I’m not aware of Evangelical Christians giving all that much of a shit about violence against women.

    In fact, it’s BDSMers and Evangelical Christians who actually have ideology in common, both view women as chattel to own and exploit.

  43. Oh, and I’ve already covered the ‘you’re in league with religious fundamentalists!’ argument, so try harder.

  44. Please correct me if I’m wrong. One of the primary techniques used by people that are NOT BDSM participants and whose experience isn’t LIMITED to a few hours of searching a website is purposefully seeking out the most horrible parts of a forum in order to justify an argument? Sadly, I can unequivocally state that for the massive amount of time I’ve been on Fetlife I’ve encountered only two such postings in the context of a rape. One was a biological theory of plunder and the other was a piece of erotica, not to me, but to the author. Mind you in this case, the author had warned people up front, as this blog has, that the writing was merely fantasy.

    I’m not arguing that rape as a fantasy personally doesn’t seem horrifying to me, it does.
    I am stating with certainty that the majority of people on Fetlife do NOT condone rape. In fact, many of the participants avidly deplore such writings and

    a) Do not seek them out
    b) Bash the people who write them
    c) Only abide by mutual consent

    That being said, I assume that the original blog author has been on the internet. Surely Fetlife has its dark corners………. just as YouTube, Reddit, Facebook and EVERY other place where people are afforded ANONYMITY to speak reveal themselves.

    However, to make the claim that BDSM is about rape culture is not only patently absurd, but deliberately false and misleading. The majority of BDSM participants are not only adherents of safety and consent, but we are friends, colleagues, neighbors and sometimes lovers. There are many BDSM participants that are only into sensualism and or/ Cosplay. Others are merely husband and wives, boyfriends and girlfriends, boyfriends and boyfriends, etc. that love each other and choose to spice up their sex lives as they see fit. Violence need not be a part of BDSM. Rape most certainly isn’t.

    Is there abuse in the BDSM community? Yes. Is there abuse in regular vanilla relationships? Yes. Is there abuse by the police? Government? Churches? Celebrities? Sports stars? All yes.

    Compartmentalizing, demonizing, over-generalizing and engaging in intellectually dishonest attempts at demagoguery do not bolster your argument. They make you lose credibility. They also make you someone who panders to their audiences and their confirmation biases.

    Instead of taking an honest look and listening to the actual people who have been to dungeons, been involved in the community, have support groups, and love one another, you’ve neglected to make a single concession as to the veracity of the experiences of others. You could have done a great deal of good on your own here by learning from people who have walked in different shoes than you. Instead you have allowed your own position to blindside you, while others, fortunately for your readers here, have challenged your ignorance and hyperbole.

    Living in a vacuum has it’s downsides. Surely you might be protected from the nefarious evils you imagine, but you’re likely surrounded by your own dirt.

  45. My problem with this whole line of argumentation is that it implies that the only way for a woman to have agency is if she’s constantly bucking the status quo – anything else is victimhood – unless she’s bucking the status quo in the “wrong” way, in which case even more victimhood.

    Society is patriarchal, and therefore any appreciation of strong men is just cultural indoctrination. Enjoying the experience of being dominated by a partner is internalized rape culture. Yadda yadda.

    Here’s the thing – while I completely accept that culture influences our thoughts and behaviors, I don’t think that makes me a victim. I’m a fully formed adult human – an admittedly imperfect creature with conflicting impulses, social indoctrination warring with intrinsic motivation, muddled by chemical reactions, hormones, and natural cycles – and I can make my own decisions. If those decisions sometimes involve adventurous sex in strange positions using unusual props and involving an enthusiastic partner? That’s my business. Can it be risky? Sure, but what’s life without some risks? Other people may look at my sex life kind of how I look at people who voluntarily jump out of airplanes, and that’s fine. I’m not asking you to participate. Different strokes.

    I generally consider myself a feminist, but the online sjw feminism really loses me on some points. For me, feminism has always been about equality and freedom both. All people should be allowed to live their lives and pursue their own happiness – even if they do it in ways that weird me out, or even result in harm. No one learns how to ride a bike without falling off and hurting themselves at least once – does that mean it’s not worth doing at all? Resilience and strength are attributes that cannot be built without trials and experience. “Some people get hurt” is just not a good enough reason for me to give up what I find to be a worthwhile activity. I try to cause as little direct harm in my life as possible, but I also don’t feel the need to blame all the world’s social ills on my own actions.

  46. You have a right to your opinion, negative or positive. You’ve not claimed to be an expert or a participant in the lifestyle (clearly you are neither). You’ve opened my eyes to activities and comments that I’ve not seen on Fetlife or in my real life and that is a good thing. As a Producer, Protector and Gatekeeper of alternative lifestyle events it keeps me on my toes and awake to theses individuals and their behaviors.
    As long as you realize and state that these are simply your opinions No Foul, No Harm. There’s darkness within the souls of many individuals no matter the side of life the choose to walk on. I’ve witnessed great joy within the BDSM community and sadness as well but that can be said for every activity that involves human beings. I find it funny to read these heated or should I say impassioned debates over the activities of a group as vast as BDSM. For those of you who feel the need to defend your lifestyle because of what has been written here DON’T. The writer’s opinion doesn’t matter anymore than our own. There’s no insight, no participation, no eye witness accounts, only data gathering and summation. Instead do what you can to make your choices and experiences and those who share them with as enriching, positive, enlightening and joyful as you are able. This writer is not the first nor the last to express a strong negative opinion. BDSM will continue long after we’re gone Believe it! Live it! It’s your life not theirs. They don’t matter.

  47. And to make things much worse I read a book which had murder ,sacrifice of children total disregard for women’s rights ….and a hefty list of people involved in every kind of sick behavior……………..the HOLY BIBLE!!!!!!!!
    Just goes to show …look and you will find (anywhere)……the same as there were bad people doing bad things in the bible doesnt mean its the christian way.
    If you can find bad people in BDSM doesnt mean its the BDSM way either …….wake up!!!!!

  48. I love going to the zoo and watching the monkeys fight.

    You’re original post accomplished what you wanted, you got attention. Happy now, are you? No truth was served, no consciousness was raised, no good was done, not one single person was helped. Wait, I guess you were, I mean, look at the SIZE of this thread.
    Congratulations on your success.

    I love to watch monkeys at the zoo fight.

  49. Lil_ball_of_fury

    To quote the great and wise Hermonie Granger, “what an idiot.”

    Fetlife is not the cesspool you are describing here. You picked the absolute worst postings you could find, and by themselves, without any context, of course fetlife is going to seem like nothing but depraved, sick people. To base an entire culture of people based on one source of information is irresponsible. You haven’t done any research, credible research. You didn’t interview real sources or talked to anyone in the community. For shame.

  50. Oh dear oh dear, here we go again. Someone has linked to me on fetlife, so now a bunch of BDSMers have come over to clutch their metaphorical pearls at me as they defend the eroticisation of inequality and abuse.

    Chris Feldt,

    This is not my only post on BDSM, this is not the only piece of evidence I am using to justify my opinion that the BDSM scene is a haven for abusers.

    I have the category Anti-BDSM, there are, as of writing, 134 posts, and there is plenty of other stuff I have seen on line to support my opinion of the BDSM ‘scene’ including from women and men who were in the scene.

    If you had bothered to read the comment thread, you would have seen I have already said that there is plenty of abuse in the main stream, the BDSM ‘scene’ is just the patriarchal, misogynistic mainstream in concentrate.

    Leanne Gray,

    Did you bother to read the comment thread? I already said that I don’t think BDSMers should be rounded up into re-education camps ‘for their own good.’

    You are free to make ‘bad choices’, and I am free to point out how dangerous and full of abusers the BDSM ‘community’ is.

    Also, which men should I make myself equal to? The batters and rapists? The warmongers and environmental destroyers?

    Foster,

    “There’s no insight, no participation, no eye witness accounts, only data gathering and summation.”

    Err, you don’t quite understand the words you are using here, I’m quoting someone describing the groups they have witnessed on Fetlife.

    As for insight, you obviously haven’t bothered reading this comment thread before leaving your own comment.

    Sterrrr,

    You really don’t understand what evidence is. The bible is a set of allegorical stories written thousands of years ago, do you think fetlife existed thousands of years ago??

    If I wanted to find out about abuse committed by Christians, I wouldn’t read the bible, I would just read the latest news reports on the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church:

    http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2015/09/catholic-church-criticised-at-un-human-rights-council-over-continued-failure-to-address-child-sex-abuse

    Or how about the Christian sect in the US that beat a teenaged boy to death for refusing to confess his ‘sins’:

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/17/new-york-church-beating-teen-whipped-word-of-life

    You know, evidence.

    Blackring,

    Know you are, said you are, what am I then?

    Lil_ball_of_fury,

    You haven’t bothered to read this comment thread, or a single other thing I’ve written on this blog, so shame on you.

  51. Do you think Blackring realised he was also describing his fellow BDSMers as ‘monkeys fighting at the zoo’?

  52. Welcome to being a huge part of the demise of feminism. The moment women attempt to dictate what I should be doing they show they are no different than the system they supposedly are fighting

  53. Where am I dictating anything to anyone?

  54. And how do I have the power to make you, or any one else, do anything?

    The 'radical' in radical feminist means going to the root of things, understanding how things really work. The idea that I, expressing my opinion on the internet, somehow have more influence over women than all the multifarious forces of white supremacist, capitalist, patriarchy, is farcical.

  55. Hello,
    I’m a fetlife user, I found your article very interesting and shockingly gross. I am not trying to excuse any of these comments or behaviours and typically I don’t agree with them either. I just want to let people understand from a different perspective.
    I was digitally raped as a child which in some way had psychological effects on me and yet I have rape fantasies (they developed around the same time). I believe my fantasies allowed me to gain control even though I didn’t want to have it anymore. I felt disgusted with myself for years but it is what made me hot (sorry for the crude language). As I grew these fantasies became an obsession that I needed to tame in a controlled, ruled and safe environment which happened to be among the thousand of fetlife users.
    Most of these fantasies aren’t to do with the act itself, they are control and power fantasies. My rape fantasies allowed me to have the sense of letting go of control yet still have the ability to stop it (if I wished to do so with a safe word), it’s an illusion of power. What you are observing in the comments above from fetlife users is the extreme (which is in every society and community).
    I wish you wouldn’t judge a whole community, who allow people to experience their fantasies without shame and disgust, because some of the users on fetlife who are pretenders and predators have seized an opportunity to prey on a new and developing society.
    Your next article that has to do with fetlife, talk to and befriend some of the users both male, female and the in-betweens. This will broaden your understanding and hopefully tame some of the extreme people who give fetlifers a bad reputation.

    Thank you,
    Renee

  56. I want to point out your title issue that ‘BDSM is abuse and rape’. As I had stated above I had experienced digital rape which some might say it has effected my psychological well being and ability to choose a healthy relationship for myself. Maybe it has or hasn’t, no one will know for sure but I can’t let that stop me from doing what I want. I would be more productive to state that ‘True BDSM scenes have been invaded by abuse and rape’? It’s less aggressive and quite a catchy heading.

    It is personally insulting to say the community that has helped me to overcome and turn my negative experiences into positive experiences IS the thing it aided me to overcome. I wouldn’t let people touch me but through a control and trust filled environment a mentor helped me overcome that fear. Also would it be fair to state that non-BDSM is non-abusive and non-rape?, no it wouldn’t! When you make a report on a society focus on the dark shadows by all means but to make it unbiased you have to be willing to see the light and beauty as well. Under no circumstances can you make a generalised statement, it’s too broad and vague therefore false.

    Rape happens everywhere, no matter whether your it’s in the BDSM or non BDSM, the same applies for abuse. You can’t pinpoint one society or community and say without a shadow of a doubt that it happens more in this community than another. The simple reason for this is because many women and men in BDSM and non BDSM don’t report it and you can’t possibly have access to all of fetlife users therefore can’t get an accurate statistic. Also there is no way (or it would be very difficult) to compare different societies due to size, spread and more differences. The reason BDSM communities perceive to have higher statistics for rape is because it is smaller in scale than non BDSM communities but if these communities were viewed on a normal distribution with z scores the results might sway your opinion and shock you.

    What many people are trying to say is: this isn’t a proper study because bias hasn’t been eliminated. A study should show both sides of the argument without implying any opinions of the researcher. A study however can come to a conclusion by reporting these figures and debating with itself. Sadly you shouldn’t quote statistics if you aren’t posting a study or report (which this isn’t), it would be contradictory to the fact that your entitled to your opinion.

    I would like to say that I am a dominant woman naturally but I have a deep desire to be dominated, surprisingly my fantasy dominators don’t take on a specific gender, male or female suits me. I understand one can’t eliminate the gender card altogether but (from my observations anyway) for majority of the BDSM community it doesn’t matter. Another point on your gender issues of how BDSM is males trying to oppress and abuse women and condition them to like it. From my experience that is not true. I thought the same as this when I was younger, I thought there was lots of males on fetlife who would hit me and spank me with no consideration of my feelings. I actually found a lot of males who constantly ask me if I’m Ok? or apologise if they feel I’m uncomfortable, I have actually had to tell some of these males that what they have said is ok, they don’t need to constantly apologise (some of the stuff was commenting how beautiful I am or that they like my shape, and so on and so on). There are creeps but fetlife give you guidelines on how to avoid them and quite frankly I have felt more uncomfortable around men in non BDSM environments than BDSM. Most of the men I have encountered on fetlife are true gentlemen with the added bonus that they will have you panting in the bedroom 😛

    If you are serious in pursuing to blog about the BDSM community and try and frame it like an item of fact, report or study (which you did above), learn to write without bias. You will win a lot more arguments and debates that way! It is quite simple to learn, it’s like writing an university assignment. Give an argument to back up your point, then counter argument then revert back to how yours is more logical and rational.
    And if your willing to post a blog on a controversial topic and devalue someone elses lifestyle and tell them it’s wrong then you should be prepared to walk away and agree to disagree. Respect other opinions and accept that yours might not be correct but you believe in it anyway and can develop it due to your own experiences. It’s what all good researchers and report or study writers have to face.

    Hope I helped and I do wish you can see my viewpoint and don’t make a generalised judgement.

  57. Dear Renee,

    I understand that you may feel that ‘controlled abuse’ has helped you, but not everything that is a coping mechanism is healthy, some people drink or take drugs or over-eat.

    BDSMers write about ‘sub drop’, which suggests that BDSM is not actually psychologically healthy, and the mechanisms of ‘after care’ sound like the process of trauma bonding.

    There is plenty of other evidence on this blog, most of it coming from people who are or where in the ‘community’, to suggest it has more abusers than the main stream, and that these abusers are pillars of the BDSM ‘community’ – that’s how they get away with it; to call the abusers ‘pretenders’ is a ‘no true Scotsman’ fallacy, I quoted it above already – did you read the comment thread at all? Also if you had read through the comment thread properly, you would have seen that I have already said that I do not think the ‘mainstream’ is safe or good, or that no abuse occurs there (have you read anything else on this blog at all?)

    Nowhere do I claim that the above post is a survey or an academic study, it is a snap-shot, that’s all. But your claims about statistics make no sense, the whole point about statistical surveys (of which the above is not one) is that they allow you to survey a small representative sample and extrapolate to the whole. Your claim about the small size of the BDSM ‘community’ warping the results does not make sense, 50% is 50%, whether the group being studied is 3 million or 3 billion strong.

    Your recommendations on how to write are incredibly condescending, especially coming from someone who obviously hasn’t read anything I’ve written – the post above is a re-blog, and there is no evidence in your comments that you have actually read any of my comments in this thread, where I’ve done a lot of backing up my argument already. Also, how can I ‘walk away’ from my own blog? I’m not forcing anyone to read it, let alone leave comments.

  58. Rebelkittycat

    The anorexic group you talked about. I joined to help my self harm. I had became anemic at 16. I didn’t understand why. I know why now because of them. I made friends out of that group who understand anorexia last forever. We actually talk when we need one another. Clearly you only wanted to see the bad.

  59. Please note that the above post is a reblog, I did not join Fetlife myself.

    I am genuinely curious to know why you decided to turn to a fetish site for help, and also what you get from them that you couldn’t get from a mainstream support group? Do you talk to other self-harmers, or to self-harm fetishists?

  60. [four hours of fart noises]

  61. [four hours of fart noises]

  62. I can say the vast majority of women i have met in Fetlife or in the “swinger” communities have been pushed into it. Generally most of these communities have a disproportionate of people with Cluster A and B personality disorders. Which is actually quite unhealthy for them, by surround them selves with other people with a similar problems they trap them selves into there own little echo chamber of positive reinforcement it makes them unable to escape. Leading to a downward spiral of Abuse (not always physical, as excessive drug and alcohol abuse is also common in these communities)

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: