I really was in two minds about putting up this YouTube video (found via The Porcupine Campaign) as it is so shocking and disturbing to watch. To be absolutely on the safe side, I am putting it below the fold, and giving a very clear warning:
WARNING, CONTAINS CONTENT THAT MAY BE TRIGGERING OR OTHERWISE TRAUMATISING
Obviously, it is also not safe for work.
I think it’s important to show this video, as it shows the ‘working’ conditions in the mainstream of the LA porn industry. This is not something hidden away where nobody knows about it, this is the norm of a massive global industry producing the mainstream of heterosexual pornography. Sex industry advocates like to pretend that it’s just the occasional ‘bad apple’, and any way, any abuse that does occur is no different to any other workplace exploitation, this video shows that it isn’t.
It also needs to be emphasised that, with out such abusive ‘work place’ conditions, it would be impossible to make mainstream heterosexual pornography. Such pornography is the record of abuse, the fact that the woman gets paid for it at the end is irrelevant.
[EDIT 15/May/16: the original video from Shelly Lubben is no longer on YouTube, but I have found a re-edit from ‘Anonymous’, as far as I can tell/remember, the original video is all there, but extra material has been added before and after.]
Anti-Porn Feminists 
This video has opened my eyes SO wide. Thank you so much for sharing. It seriously brought me to tears. All women are beautiful and worthy of respect and reverence. Obviously the porn industry is trying to assure that this ideal for society is never attained.
Important. I think people should also know that many of the girls killed in Juarez were used in snuff films and their injuries are consistent with imagery used in such deadly films.
Good point Swaneagle, as any recorded sex act is pornography.
For info on Juarez see here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_homicides_in_Ciudad_Ju%C3%A1rez
I wonder who the perpetrators of these lethal crimes against women living in Ciudad Juarez are? Are they martians or even fairies perhaps or horrors perhaps the perpetrators were all males. Passive language only serves to reinforce invisibility of male accountability and I note the sex of the victims who lived in and around Ciudad Juarez was not omitted and so the obvious question is why?
If we cannot even name sex of the agents committing these crimes against women what hope is there for men’s crimes against women to even be recognised when the focus is always on what happened to the women rather than writing/saying this ‘unknown male(s) raped, tortured and then murdered another young woman who lived in Cidudad Juarez. Now if it was women or girls committing these crimes male supremacist tool the mainstream media would have named sex of the perpetrators and ensured its readers were in no doubt women/girls were the ones responsible for these femicides – but male perpetrators continue to be accorded invisibility and denial of any accountability. That’s the way to go to ensure male supremacy remains intact and unaccountable.
[…] exists because of inequity (let’s please not pretend as though porn treats women, en masse, with respect), I find it a little dishonest and misguided to advocate for mandatory condom use as though this […]
[…] We live in a world in which a global, $97 billion dollar a year industry known as pornography turns violence against women into public entertainment for men. We live in a world in which violence against women is not only […]
Death penalty for pornographers and rapists!
FUCK OFF WITH YOUR GAY ASS BLOG BLOODY HELL, who wouldn’t want to have sex for a living? and if you’re unhappy with whats being done to you say no or just stop its not that hard, open your eyes people.
The sheer stupidity and arrogance of men is hard to fathom sometimes. Take the above comment.
Who wouldn’t want to have sex for a living? The very question reveals that the man making this comment has not one shred of imagination or the ability to empathise with anyone who is not exactly like him (ie, he cannot empathise with any woman).
He would love to be paid to stick his dick in a woman, therefore everyone would love to be paid to have sex.
He is literally unable to fathom what prostitution is like for a woman, he cannot imagine what it is like to submit to unwanted penetration ten times a day (which is the reality of what the ‘non-glamorous’ end of the sex industry is like).
Would this man like to be simultaneously anally and orally penetrated in return for money he desperately needs? The fact that he uses “GAY ASS” as a pejorative suggests not.
He also thinks we can stop rapists just by saying ‘no’! He doesn’t understand that there are millions of women around the world who can’t say ‘no’, who don’t get a chance to say ‘no’, who will face severe consequences if they say ‘no’, and that men don’t listen when we say ‘no’ anyway.
His comment is even more amazing when one considers the post it is under. Did he watch the video and come to the conclusion that the women in it was enjoying what was happening to her? that she just wasn’t saying ‘no’ clearly enough to stop her abuse? that the men assaulting her just wouldn’t be able to understand that she was in pain and distressed?
Was he literally unable to see her suffering and her distress?
This man has demonstrated that he is an arrogant, solipsistic simpleton, incapable of any empathy, but he thinks we are the ones who need to ‘open our eyes’!
‘Who wouldn’t want to have sex for a living?’ Please, define ‘sex’. Sex for men means any man stikcing his dick somewhere until orgasm. That a woman might not have an orgasm or even get any pleasure out of it is irrelevant. That she might actually feel pain is also irrelevant. Because ‘sex’, no matter how it is defined, is always good, dixit sex-pozzies. And because sex = porn in pornworld, porn is good, right? And forget about any woman’s perspective, any harm she might feel, any damage she might suffer in the name of ‘sex’, which seems to have become nothing more than a commercial product for men, built from the exploitation of women.
Chauvinism is the twin of racism, homophobia, nazism and any other attitude of inherant supremacy. It leaves women and children as vulnerable as Jews were to Nazis and suffering in numbers of deaths the equivalent of the Holocaust every single year. Pornography is simply media promotion of chauvinist supremacy eroticised. Everyone that watches a violently bigoted media form is self grooming themselves and to think this form of media or media user is inheritantly more sophisticated than other media users is pure evil towards women and children.
[…] saying: one day, I’m going to get hurt real bad and my ass is going to fall out). Or there is this footage (TRIGGER WARNING, the content is very disturbing), if you want to see what it’s like when […]
If you don’t want to be subjected to all that shit then don’t become a porn star plain and simple. I like my porn to be rough so its going to be rough. If I hated working on computers, I’m not going to get a job working on computers. Period.
The only issue is STDs. Easy solution, you need to get checked up, or consent to not having to.
The callousness of men never fails to astound me. Here is another man who managed to watch this film and to decide that there is nothing wrong with what he saw. The woman ‘chose’ to be there, so she ‘chose’ to be abused (who would choose to be “subjected to all that shit” anyway?). He wants to consume violent porn, so violent porn sets are necessary. Once again a man demonstrates that he thinks his erection matters more than women’s lives.
Totally agree. Also, shelley says in her video that she frquently agreed to one scene, only to have something completely different asked of her on camera. The inhumanity of this john shines through words, hope to god hes not a teacher, doctor or someone with access to women or children.
Hi Derrington, and thank you for your comment.
…Naive. Your fancy language (both from the woman in the movie as from the commenters) suggests you are intelligent and know what you are talking about.
The numerous sophisms, the lack of Amy logic at all, the tact that none of you suggest solutions and all of you fail to look at this from any other perspective then your own however, do not. They are an indication of a lack of knowledge of how the world Works and that you are nothing more than a bunch of sexually disappointed over-aged women, ego actualy suffer from a lack of empathy themselves.
Last year 60 mail men died on the job! Shut down the mail industry!
Pathetic
The sheer tedious arrogance of men who come here with their patronising, condescending, obviously-not-proof-read (that ellipsis! those random capitalisations!), finger-wagging.
He throws around ‘fancy’ words like naive and sophisms, as if they were trump cards that somehow proved his argument without him having to actually demonstrate anything. What is he referring to exactly, when he makes those claims? Real manly-men never have to explain themselves properly, right?
He says we suggest no solutions, even though Lubben, in the video, repeatedly said that the state of California should enforce health and safety legislation, such as condom use, or shut down the adult film industry.
Does he need spoon-feeding? Don’t consume porn, don’t make porn, if you run a credit card company, don’t facilitate monetary transactions for the porn industry. If you do these things, you are participating in a massive human rights violation. There’s my solution.
He says we fail to look at this from any other perspective – which perspectives should we be looking at? That of men who love violent porn? The ‘Free Speech Coalition’, which is a lobby group for the California porn industry that claims to speak on behalf of porn performers, and says that performers don’t want to use condoms, and that it’s unreasonable for pornographers to check whether or not they are using under-age performers? Which ‘perspective’ are we missing here?
He says we don’t know how the world works – this is pure empty rhetoric and means nothing. Also, Lubben is an ex porn performer, she knows very well how the world works.
He calls us “sexually disappointed over-aged women” – wow, trying to intimidate and discredit us with sexual insults, that’s so original. The problem here is apparently ours, for not enjoying violent, degrading sex.
Also, lets have a quick lol at him calling us “over-aged”, “under-aged” means under the age of consent, so he’s ‘insulted’ us by saying we’re over the age of consent! Nothing fucked up or paedophilic going on there!
He also accused us of “[suffering] from a lack of empathy [ourselves].” Are we supposed to empathise with the men who torture women on porn sets? Are we supposed to empathise with the men who masturbate to images of women being tortured? Again he’s throwing out empty insults without actually demonstrating anything.
He makes the comparison with deaths in the mail industry. The difference between the sex industry and any other industry, is that the sex industry is the only industry where the harm is the work. Being a soldier is not being paid to go and step on a land mine, even though that is a risk involved with being a soldier. Being a miner is not being paid to have a mine collapsed on top of you, although that is a risk involved with being a miner. Being in the sex industry however, means that the ‘work’ is being sexually tortured. That’s the reality of submitting to unwanted sex with 30 men a night in a legal flat-rate brothel in Germany, that’s the reality of being on a legal porn set in California.
What’s really galling about these arrogant, tedious men, is that they have somehow managed to watch the above video, and not seen anything wrong with any of it.
Come on dudebros, show some back-bone here, watch the video, name the time point, and demonstrate to me how what you see there is a-ok.
Yes. Hes totally without humanity.
What I meant to say is his lack of humanity towards women and children is evidence of his psychopathic attitude to anyone not male … men like him, chauvinists, believe anyone not male is a different, inferior species, hence their talking down to females whilst not even being able to spell correctly or evidence any of their points. Because in the end, pornography is chauvinistic hate media baited with sex as the honeytrap. People watch it and wank to it whilst absorbing the ‘women are evil, dirty creatures with depraved attitudes towards men and who use sex as a manipulation of men’. The fact that the Government endorses this as ‘free speech’ shows just how little democracy functions for women.
I really do wonder how men manage to watch the video above and come to the conclusion that nothing is wrong.
How much violent porn does a man need to have masturbated to, and from what age, to completely remove his ability to empathise?
You’re right Derrington, men like that do not see women as fully human.
Chauvinism is learnt psychopathy towards women and children
If porn really was adults watching other fully informed, consenting adults experiencing beautiful, pleasurable sex without any kind of pain and/or humilation and every single act engaged in was chosen, consented to and done safely, then I would not have any problem with it at all. I would consider it a perfectly acceptable form if adult entertainment.
Sadly, porn is very far from the above description. The video showed women crying, yelling ‘it hurts, it hurts’, screaming pain, shouting stop and no and please don’t do that to me. There is nothing consentual about that. There is nothing healthy about finding that a turn on. It’s sick and abusive.
The very worst part of this is not just that it is happening but also that it is teaching boys and men how to treat women. This is frightening. Young women are being subjected to the same treatment behind closed doors with increasing numbers going to hospitals and doctors for serious sexual injuries.
The pro-porn men who are justifying this need to picture themselves as fathers of a teeny-tiny baby. Imagine watching her grow up, calling them daddy and looking to them for love, protection, kindness and wisdom. And then, imagine their baby girl violated, bleeding, bruised, crying and asking, ‘why?’
Hello Bastet, and thank you for your comment.
I take issue with the last paragraph though, men should be able to show compassion for all women and girls, not just the ones that ‘belong’ to them. This kind of thinking risks recreating the virgin/whore dichotomy, where some women are seen as ‘good’ and worthy of protection, while other women are seen as ‘bad’ and deserving everything they get
Also, even ‘good’ porn (if such a thing existed) is problematic, as it sets the user up as a voyeur, and objectifies sex.
I strongly disagree with you. The current view is ‘those women’, ‘other’, ‘nothing to do with me’, ‘not my mother, daughter, sister, wife, friend, neighbour…’. By using the imagination of ‘my’ it personalises it, breaking through the barrier of otherness.
Sexuality, voyeurism and objectification are not automatically one and the same thing. It is actually possible for porn to be made that shows whole human beings making love. With the behind the scenes having no abuse, no drugs, no coersion, no minors etc.
To me, saying that any and all displays of human sexuality are automatically objevtification would be akin to saying it’s wrong for a couple to kiss hello in public. My personsl goal is harm-minimisation, if not eradication.
“By using the imagination of ‘my’ it personalises it, breaking through the barrier of otherness.”
Well, you are entitled to you opinion. I disagree with it, but I’m not interested in arguing round in circles, I’ve stated my thinking on the subject already.
“Sexuality, voyeurism and objectification are not automatically one and the same thing. It is actually possible for porn to be made that shows whole human beings making love. With the behind the scenes having no abuse, no drugs, no coersion, no minors etc.”
Even ‘alt’ porn involves lots of stopping and starting and holding the body at odd angles to allow the cameras access, it’s still a performance for the camera, therefore still voyeurism. Sure, you could have a static unobtrusive camera in the room and hope it picked up something interesting, but I doubt it would sell. You just have to read the accounts of the actresses in Blue is the Warmest Colour – who were only faking sex – to see how impossible it is in reality to film “whole human beings making love”
“To me, saying that any and all displays of human sexuality are automatically objevtification would be akin to saying it’s wrong for a couple to kiss hello in public.”
I did not say that “any and all displays of human sexuality are automatically objectification”, I said I did not believe in ‘good porn’, I don’t believe porn even is a genuine expression of human sexuality, it is a simulacrum.
“My personsl goal is harm-minimisation, if not eradication.”
Gee, I’m into eradicating harm too. It seems to me, though, that you put your own self-interest – your desire to get off to porn without feeling bad about it – over that goal.
I don’t actually watch porn. Biased much?
I really don’t know why you feel the need to alienate an ally who shares the goal of harm minimisation and the education of harm within pornography by slinging mud in a slanderous fashion against a person you don’t know and haven’t tried to get to know just because we have slightly variant opinions on depictions of sex and sexuality.
I don’t watch porn because it doesn’t appeal to me. As a westerner, I have been exposed to it. I’ve never bought it, hired it or sought it out, let alone masturbated to it and got off to it. The porn that I have been exposed to has in fact made me feel quite queezy, ill at ease and grossed out. I’ve not had the same reaction to sex scenes in telwvision series and movies. My opinion is not based on morality or personal turn-ons and turn-offs. It is based on harm minimisation and solid feminist theory.
I will not mud sling and character assassinate you in turn because I feel it is antithetical to the goals of harm minimisation we share.
Bastet,
You wrote:
Now how am I, or anyone else, supposed to read that and not come to the conclusion that you were speaking as a porn consumer?
I think this person lacks the ability to understand that the whole point of porn is to eroticise the subjugation of females. If you believe in equality then porn is directly against that belief as it is gradually reintroducing acceptance of slavery and racial stereotyping as acceptable human practise. The nudity is simply window dressing to get people to buy intothe political message behind it.
Is it really that difficult to understand opinions that differ to your own, marginally, may have just as much validity as your own and there isn’t a lack of understanding but rather a different conclusion?
There is not a single subject matter on the planet that is universally agreed upon in all details right down to the absolute minutae.
Can you not talk directly about the actual subject without resorting to; ‘you must get off on it’, ‘this person doesn’t understand’? Personal attacks lack reason and are not even on topic.
I’ll be leaving this conversation now because I’m not here to defend my right to exist, think for myself and come to my own conclusions. I came here to discuss harm minimisation of serious abuse, what can be done about it and to be part of the solution.That stopped happening a few comments ago. I find it sad that people who agree with and will fight to change abuse of women in porn cannot ally with anti-porn advocates to affect real change unless we agree 100% that all depictions of sex are abusive and all porn must be banned. To me, that’s extremist. It’s really not much different to vegans calling vegetarians ‘animal murderers’. And it all it does is alienate people who could have been friends and allys. I now have grave doubts this movement will succeed in harm minimisation because there is fragmentation. That honestly makes me so sad.
I think you are blowing this out of all proportion, you said things that made it sound like you were a porn consumer, and I responded to that.
If I went to a vegan forum and said “it is actually possible for animals to be farmed and slaughtered in a way that is cruelty free,” would I then have the right to get upset if other people there though I was a meat eater?
Im sorry you feel so alienated by responses, mine included. I cant see how you can have harm minimisation in an industry which embraces harm as a reason d’etre. Using hate language to describe a whole race of people (females) would suggest to me that the harm is meant and intrinisic to the product. That seems to me to be the crux of the problem. How would you suggest you could minimise the abuse and produce porn that men and some women want to watch with no hate language and no portrayed inferiority of one race in regard to the other?
That’s a brilliant question, Derrington.
In the form that porn is made now, I agree with you, that it represents a form of gender apartheid, very obvious power imbalance and hate speech.
Examples of non-abusive sex scenes exist in tv and movies. The digference being, the sex is faked.
An entire overhaul of the industry is the only way, that I am able to see, (maybe there are other ways but I can’t see them) to remove the abuse, hate speech etc. Literally, taking porn from depictions of abusive sex with a flimsy, barely-there storyline and flipping it on its head. A whole story, good acting, three dimensional characters and a reason to watch it that isn’t just sex and shock-value. In other words tv and movies with sex scenes in a transparent industry where actors are sober, their personal boundaries are respected, there’s no unexpected surprises that deviate from the agreed upon script, safety is tantamount, condoms are used etc
So, people aren’t watching bodies having sex; they’re watching whole characters and strong storylines with sex scenes.
True Blood is darn close to that scenario. There are scenes in it, that have been a bit gross. Unsurprisingly, given it’s a vampire series. Another example of a tv series that’s close to that scenario is Spartacus, Blood and Sand. And, I’m sure there’s a lot more.
I can’t help thinking the problem isn’t sex scenes per/se but power imbalance, abuse, hate speech, physical harm, lack of safety precautions, lack of character development that leaves only a body thus objectification and a disconnect from sexuality being a part of humanity.
That just doesn’t work in the real world, for so many reasons.
Porn performers aren’t know for their acting skills, and the whole point of acting is that it’s not real. Sure, some actors are friends or in relationships in real life, but acting is still, fundamentally, not real.
Why would any regular actor want to have ‘real’ sex on camera? If ‘real’ sex became a regular part of mainstream film and TV, then young women who want to be actors would be under tremendous pressure to have ‘real’ sex on camera, there is already the pressure on women starting out in the industry to get naked, for example all the naked extras in the brothel scenes in Game of Thrones.
Please read this report on Blue is the Warmest Colour – a critically (but not universally) acclaimed Palme D’Or winning art house film – to see how abusive regular film sets can get when filming a fake, but authentic appearing (maybe) sex scene. Also notice that it took 10 days to film a 10 minute scene; now imagine adding ‘real’ sex to such a shoot.
In both porn and acting, there are intrusive cameras and multiple takes. With acting, it could take dozens of takes to get the right facial expressions – imagine trying to do that while having sex. In porn the men have to take Viagra, and use artificial lubricant because the women aren’t aroused, why would it be any different on an HBO set?
If you want “whole characters and strong storylines”, that means the kind of acting that involves taking hours to get a few minutes of final film. What you’re asking for is contradictory, you want a well-acted (ie faked) sex scene, but with real penetration etc. To film authentic unsimulated sex, to Hollywood standards, is impossible, because the lights and the sound boom and the cameras and the make-up and hair people and the director and the re-takes intrude.
If you’re happy with the simulated sex scenes you see on TV already (and it’s not like True Blood etc. are entirely unproblematic as a whole), why is it so important to you to see a real erection and real penetration in there too?
Also, what you’re asking for doesn’t work as an economic model, if it did, it would already exist. Porn works by shooting cheap (performers are only paid once, by the sex act), all the profit is behind the camera, in the distribution, where images can be re-cut and re-sold endlessly.
In fact, as much as ‘high quality’ porn, with sets and story lines can happen, it’s already happened:
Please do check it out and report back.
You’re also ignoring the demand for abusive porn, men don’t watch gonzo porn because there’s nothing better available, abusive porn exists because there is demand for it.
On a final note, if you’re going to leave comments on my blog (especially after you said you were “leaving this conversation”), at least have the courtesy to address the points I’ve made.
I think I speak for those of us who use porn because partner sex is unavailable to us and for some, this has been the case for years, even decades. We couldn’t care less about the women in porn other than their ability to bring us to climax. After all these women have easy, constant sex with a wide variety of very good looking people. We on the other hand, those who are sexually lonely, have nothing but our hand and a computer screen and the knowledge that no woman will agree to have any kind of skin to skin contact with us. So really….why should we even think twice about these people?
Did this man even watch the video above? Which part of that woman’s ordeal looked ‘easy’ to him?
At least he’s being honest, he doesn’t care if women are being tortured to facilitate his orgasms, his penis matters more than women’s lives.
His decades of porn use have also warped his sense of reality, if he really believes that women in porn enjoy what they’re doing (either that, or else he is completely unaware of the massive contradiction in his statement: he doesn’t care about women being tortured to make porn, because those women being tortured are having a great time).
It’s actually rather sad, and echoes something I think I heard first from Rebecca Whisnant: if you are watching porn because you are lonely, it’s only going to make you more lonely.
He complains that women will never offer him “skin to skin contact”, so he uses porn, and he has become so callous he is happy to admit he doesn’t give a shit about women being tortured to make the porn he jerks off to – how is jerking off to images of women being tortured a good substitute for human contact?
Was this particular jerk-off always a callous piece of shit that any smart woman would steer well clear of, or did decades of porn use make him that way?
Thats what you get for being a whore..whores deserve no respect (men/women) both are the substitute of society..if you dont like getting fucked by a bunch of random men then dont fucking do prostitution..and about those diseases..you earned them you dummies..thats what sleeping with others (for money) gets you..you got yourself in that condition..dont fucking blame the government..i hope you all get aids so we can get rid of all those work in the porn industry.
Men really do hate women.
(And what’s the chances that this dudebro’s a porn user and a john? Pretty high I’d reckon)
I FIND THIS REALLY EASY TO MASTURBATE TO.
Men really really really hate women.
Wow , I have never thought of it this way. All we do is sit her and watch it without actually knowing what they are feeling or going through behind the scenes. Our pleasure is a women pain and suffering. They don’t have a choice either some of them don’t have a way to make money, also it can be impossible to have a normal life after being in the porn industry. Shaking my own head. Overlooked part of the industry.
1337 Not sure how you can overlook the central core of the sex industry – the real abuse of females as an inferior race/caste/gender, filmed to inflate the male viewer’s ego as a member of the superior race. An industry that regularly uses slavery, coercion and drug baiting of female children (the average age of entry into the sex industry is 13), plus the use of hate speech to describe the females and underage employees surely must have given you a clue to the fact that a human rights violation is going on right in front of you on screen … men tend to split off fragments of the sex industry which they don’t feel comfortable with and rebrand the consumers/commissioners of these parts as ‘idiots’ or paedos or ‘weirdos’ – but underneath all of it is the constant eroticising of male supremacy over various ‘objects’ be they animal or human.
I have a question. I was doing some research on the asian porn industry. i found some very disturbing videos in which [EDIT: CONTENT REMOVED]. I would like to know if these women actually sign a contract agreeing with this horrible sexual abbuse or are they are being held against their will and being painfully abused against their consent. If someone could reply to me ASAP. Thank you.
I bet you got a big fat erection fantasizing about getting women to read graphic descriptions of sexual violence against women.
You can fuck off with your racist, misogynistic fantasies, and your ~research~
I mean really, why would anyone doing genuine research on the sex industry think I would know exactly what happened during the making of every single piece of pornography in the whole world ever?
In any other area of human existence, it is not considered possible for someone to consent to be harmed. No one would argue, in relation to an unsafe factory, that the man who had his arm ripped off consented to work there, had a contract to work with that piece of machinery, knew what he was getting himself into, so it’s all fine. In that kind of situation, people recognise the inequality, the poverty, the lack of meaningful choice, but add a (male) orgasm into the equation, and suddenly the rules change.
It doesn’t matter if the women being tortured in porn signed a contract, they are still being harmed. It doesn’t matter if they sighed a detailed contract stipulating exactly how they could be tortured, and that contract was followed; It doesn’t matter if they sighed a detailed contract stipulating exactly how they could be tortured, and that contract was ignored on set; it doesn’t matter if they signed a vague contract and didn’t know what was going to happen on set; it doesn’t matter if they were abducted off the street and held at gun point; it doesn’t matter if she was paid properly, or if the cheque bounced – in all those circumstances, a woman was tortured for male orgasms, she was harmed, she was harmed even if she ‘chose’ to do it because she needed the money.
Totally… and why do they always put the photo they took at the beginning of the shoot at the end in order to make out that its all alright, no one really got hurt and its all consensual … media manipulation of torture porn ..
[…] being penetrated, the ones being grabbed and slapped, the ones getting ejaculate in their eyes. It is not the same as being a male performer; pornographers know that they could get almost any random dude in off the street, and he’d be […]
These ladies made their own choices ..
Ah yes, those magical choosy choices that make all the problems go away!
So what if the woman was poor; so what if she signed a contract agreeing to do one thing, and then a totally different thing happened on set; so what if she thought it would be ok, and then it wasn’t; so what if society only applies the ‘choices’ argument to women being abused in the sex industry, and never, say, to men getting their arms ripped off by unsafe machinery (nobody ever says unsafe machinery is ok because men ‘choose’ to work with it), because, choices!
So what if trafficked women and children are used to make porn; so what if parents pimp out their own children for live-streamed abuse in, for example, the Philippines; so what if every rapist with a camera phone is a pornographer, those magical choosy choices will make all the problems go away!
Busted kayla
lol
By these standards, nobody should have a job, ever. Have I been told “it’s just this” and it turns out to be that and this plus that? Plenty of times. And the scene stops and I just don’t perform. I have even left a set. Plenty of people go to work and end up being “forced” to do things they don’t want, covering shifts they are too tired to cover, screwing over people they wouldn’t have in their good nature. For the money. And ever so often people do stand up for themselves and say no.
I also find it funny how everyone who has an unpopular opinion is a man and wrong… This isn’t feminism, it’s man hating.
You are basically just shitting on all the women (and men) abused in the sex industry, you should be ashamed of yourself.
“This isn’t feminism, it’s man hating.”
Oh wah wah, go suck-up to some ~male feminists~ on a libfem blog, you’re not going to shut me up with accusations of ~man hating~, you amateur.
And speaking of amateurism, radical feminism is the ‘unpopular opinion’, if you’re going to try to insult me, at least get a clue as to what you are talking about!
Ester, not sure why you would even come on a site that is anti a media that promotes calling women and children by terms of contempt and carries messages and storylines that all rape victims are essentially liars who lured men into raping them. Promoting violent sexualised contempt for women and children isnt feminism, no matter how personally or financially empowering it may feel to you as an individual women. You cant be in the union and a strikebreaker simultaneously.
“You cant be in the union and a strikebreaker simultaneously.”
Very good take on the subject! Why are supposedly ‘sex positive’ advocates of ‘feminist porn’ not spending their time and energy routing out these abusive situations?
Instead, they spend their time and energy denying and covering up.
I see these people as sexism positive rather than sex positive. I cannot think of anything less sexually positive than being called a cunt for having sex – these women must turn themselves inside out and back to front trying to make a silk purse out of that particular sow’s ear.
I have to say that the comments (replies) by some of the women here to the men or to those of different opinions/suggestions/conclusions are making the entire subject lose its power. The way it comes across to me is that if you are not in 100% agreement with the more radical people here then your opinion is void and in fact you deserve to die or at least get your genitals removed. Sad and extremely counterproductive.
Which “opinions/suggestions/conclusions” are those then? That the women being abused in porn choose it, deserve it, like it?
This is such a flimsy, pointless argument, yes I disagree with people who disagree with me! and I’m not going to be polite to people (men) who think women are sub-human and ‘choose’ to be abused.
Sucking up to men who think women are sub-human isn’t going to change anything, nobody gives up power/privilege/control out of the kindness of their hearts, and the porn-sick dudebros who come here to say how much they love masturbating to the video above are not allies, and do not deserve civil treatment here.
You also haven’t bothered to read the comment thread properly either (no surprises there), I have given detailed replies to people who disagree with me on several occasions.
You are a misogynist who can’t stand women who have opinions of their own and express them without apology.
okay, so i am a nymphomaniac, i know there is a different name for it for men but im not to sure what it is so we will just use that, but even being a nympho, i dont find that shit arousing at all, i mean im into alot of things, but when the female im with is uncomfortable i stop whatever it is and apologize and such, but there is a point that is too far, there is alot about sex that is painful, and i admit i like to do some of those things, but i do get direct consent and i stop if its to much for them to handle, now mind you i am a sex addict, a person that has a legitament addiction, yet people that dont, ya know people in this industry, seem to have little to no restraint and its sad, because i mean, first off im very protective of females, i hate seeing them hurt in any way, and i mean knowing that i cant do much to help pisses me off in the first place, second, i mean fuck being a man or a woman for a second and think, in reality regardless of sex or race or anything else that makes a person different, no one deserves that kind of abuse. now i want it to be known that i am a man, a straight man at that, and i do stand for some feminist views. this being one of them.
Loren – a lot of incoherence to say you agree that porn abuse is wrong! But as a sex addict you use porn – yes?
A good video to spread the much needed awareness people seem ignorant of. Sadly, as porn is a global powerhouse generating lots of money, I can’t see any immediate effect causing it to end anytime soon. As long as drug, alcohol and mental/physical abuse exists in the modern world, so will porn. There’s no such thing as moderation in porn…
Outrageous. A true depiction of what goes on behind the ‘glamorous’ porn industry. It cannot occur to me how violence against women, in any form is condoned, let alone distributed across the world as entertainment. To keep it short, women in porn are dehumanized and degraded to the fullest capacity. These women are human beings, they are our daughters, mothers, sisters. They are not toys or playthings.
It’s time we men learn to treat all women with respect, and not just our own.
Wow I never knew that went on. I used to think that white women liked getting treated like that in porno because that’s how society makes it seem. I now change my view but if you don’t like it don’t be a sex worker. Unfortunately there are no boundaries in sex that’s what people want you to think. If you think that you can be choosy you won’t get booked. These women know how dangerous it can, not always but can be. They want money so be prepared after all your not a runway model or a top flying model where you can demand some things its sex. Old pervs at home need to jerk off if that means saying rude words and spanking a bit too hard so be it you signed up for it. And by the way men do not hate women they just do not respect certain women which is why those types of women will never be their wives instead they will watch them getting abused and tucked and jerk off. How does that mean men hate women. Don’t be a hoe, a prostitute and expect a standing ovation like you have discovered a new cure or have done something outstanding. You fuck for money so satisfying the men. Sorry that the water sports was too much or the anal hurt today. Find a different job ladies. The porn industry was created for men to jerk off originally period ain’t nothing changed. Women need to know their place it not fucking for money. Try having children being a good wife a professional a teacher a cook. Not fucking for doe then complaining that it hurt too much. Come on women wake up. I’m a women by the way a real women who would not want my 2 girls fucking for doe blame your parents or understand your job but do not blame men how dare you modern women.
This comment is crazy and I’m letting it through mostly so that my regular readers can see the kind of bat-shit I have to deal with.
No, cee, I don’t believe you’re a woman, because the vast majority of hits this blog gets, specifically this post, is through search engine terms for violent porn.
Also what women would write a line like this: “Wow I never knew that went on. I used to think that white women liked getting treated like that in porno because that’s how society makes it seem.”
The ‘white women’ bit stinks of a certain stripe of male ‘social justice’ tumblrite, who tries to hide his misogyny by appending ‘white’ in front of women etc. These men are almost always white themselves as well.
Also, it isn’t like black and other non-white women aren’t treated just as badly in porn.
Also, how can the commenter not know this stuff goes on in porn while still knowing what messages porn puts out? The only thing different from gonzo porn about the above video is that the distress of the woman disrupted filming, instead of simply being part of the final porn.
Even if you are a woman, that doesn’t stop you being a misogynist, and your views are most definitely misogynist, you think that certain women are asking to be abused, and that they are to blame for this abuse because they ‘chose’ it.
Lots of women do think this way of course, it’s a self defence mechanism to separate yourself from ‘those’ women, those dumb whores who should have known what they were getting themselves into. Women who believe themselves to be safe from male abuse can only maintain that belief by pretending that the women who are abused are completely different and separate from themselves.
Also, the apologism for men is non-sensical – men don’t hate women, they just want to jerk off to them being abused? How does that work?
And we shouldn’t blame men for the abuse they commit? Fuck off.
If you really are a woman, I feel sorry for you, and I feel sorry for your daughters, I hope nothing bad ever happens to them, because they won’t have their mother to rely on for support.
I mean seriously:
“And by the way men do not hate women they just do not respect certain women which is why those types of women will never be their wives instead they will watch them getting abused and tucked and jerk off. How does that mean men hate women.”
This is one of the most stupid things I have ever read, and I get a lot of idiots leaving their sad excuses for ‘thoughts’ on this blog.
This sounds like an mra post, particularly the moral crusade against women in porn but not the male workforce or watchers. And the rant about elderly pervs as he puts it shows how out of touch he is with how the porn industry and its women and child hating agenda has gained strength within the young male audience who love the male superiority stance and the hate speech against women who have sex, which is pretty much all of us to one degree or another. Its like hating black people for eating but not white.
.I’ve read all the posts with great interest and being male I’m quite sure I’m going to be shot down in flames regardless of my opinion but I must say that although the video is horrific and all porn that depicts violence against women is abhorrent to make the gross generalization that all porn is evil is wrong, you make the assumption that no women would ever choose to make porn unless they were coerced, forced or so desperate for money they had no choice, I’m sorry you are wrong! Some women enjoy making pornographic films, some enjoy the fact that they know men are masturbating to them, some do it as it can be very good money,
To say all forms of porn are wrong and de-humanises women and de-sensitizes men is bordering on the verge of fanaticism , there needs to be tighter control of the industry and all porn which the women is clearly non-consensual or violently mistreated should be stamped on with the harshest penalties to the perpetrators.
I’m happily married with children but as someone mentioned in an earlier post there are men who for whatever reason cannot have the love of a woman, these men though you might hate the thought do have sexual desires and to relive the yearning to procreate do so through the means of masturbation, where’s the harm as long as he’s watching consensual adults having sex for money in a safe environment
Another point I’d like to make is I have a wife and I have grown up daughters and I hate the thought that anyone would look at them in a sexual way but I’m male and I have to accept that other men will , I respect and love my wife and value her opinions but if I see an attractive woman walking down the street and I glance to look at her , I’m sorry at that split second I’m not thinking about her opinion on 3rd world economics I’m looking at her purely for the way she looks , that doesn’t mean I hate women or love my wife any less it just means I’m an heterosexual male interested in the opposite sex and to vilify men into thinking that’s somehow anti-women is wrong
Dude, you may have read all the comments, but you haven’t understood shit, as you’ve typed out the same tired old drivel numerous dudes before you have typed.
If all porn with any kind of coercion or violence in it were banned, there would be no more porn. Even so-called ‘ethical’ porn can include extreme sado-masochistic violence. If your measure of ‘ethical’ production is just that the woman says she enjoys it on camera, then all porn would include such a clip, because the women wouldn’t get paid otherwise.
Only a tiny handful of women performers get to make a lot of money in porn, all the money is in the production side, which is dominated by men (and a woman behind the camera making money off other women’s backs is not ethical). Most women last less than a year in the industry, and have to do stripping and prostitution on the side to survive. The fees in porn are not high when considered against the potential physical and psychological damage, and the fact that women do not last long in the industry.
The porn industry itself fights tooth and nail against any legislation to protect it’s ‘workers’, and the astro-turf group that does so claims to be representing the workers, and fighting for ‘freedom’ – the porn industry is inherently exploitative, the way the porn industry exists, for real, in the real world, demonstrates that.
Also, I find it funny that dudes like you are arguing both that the industry can be regulated to make it ‘safe’, but at the same time, any attempt to ban it would drive it underground – isn’t the latter claim just admitting that it’s a semi-underground industry already? Pornographers won’t switch to ‘ethical’ production, because that doesn’t actually sell, men are very honest about wanting violent porn.
And dude, ‘procreation’ is having children, men masturbating on their own to porn doesn’t make any babies! It is very obvious to me, and to anyone else with any kind of critical analysis, that porn consumption is about having a fleeting moment of power over women (the dude above admits as much, but you only read that comment as some poor lonely man), pornography is a part of patriarchal domination, it confirms again and again that women are sub-human (and the fact that they appear sometimes to enjoy it just proves how sub-human they are).
Ask yourself, how is it possible for a man to masturbate to these images, without him hating women in some way? The fact that you can watch this video, admit it’s horrific, read the comments left by men underneath, but then claim that the idea that porn desensitises men is ‘fanaticism’, just proves to me that you have been desensitised to violence against women. Violence against women is not committed by a few outlier men, it is committed by otherwise normal men, at epidemic rates.
Also dude, read up on what objectification means, it’s not simply about looking at a woman.
And finally, quit with the whining: I’m a man! I’m not allowed to have an opinion! Wah Wah Wah! The whole fucking world belongs to you, and anything you say in a mainstream forum will be given more weight, simply because you are male, even if you are only repeating something a woman said moments before. If you had actually had a look around on this blog, you would see that I only ‘shoot down in flames’ commentors, male or female, who disagree with me; that’s what having an opinion, and defending said opinion, actually involves. If you think you are having some kind of crime committed against you by having someone disagree with you, in a way that proves you are wrong, you should stay off the internet.
[…] of critical analysis, that porn consumption is about having a fleeting moment of power over women (the dude above admits as much, but you only read that comment as some poor lonely man), pornography is a part of […]
Oh great, another sexist husband and father whining about his rights to watch violence against a woman whilst still thinking hes not prejudice against women as human beings. Thats why hes worried about his daughters, theyre moving around a snake pit of abusers with no idea how much danger theyre in from men like him.
Exactly, it’s ‘not all men!’ Until one of the handful of women he cares about is at risk, then it’s ‘boys will be boys!’
Notice neither world view actually involves challenging male behaviour in any way.
Men actually have more power and more opportunities to challenge men’s misogynistic behaviour, because men actually listen to each other.
Goodness I didnt expect that tyrade of abuse , I was just trying to air a diffent opinion as a man , you cant seem to stand any other opinion or viewpoint unless it falls in line with your own! I’m not whining and at no point did I say I watch porn I dont , I made it quite clear I abhore violence against women all I was saying is I dont need to watch porn as I am in a healthy realtionship I was just saying I could understand if a man who wasnt in a realtionship would, thats the diffence I try to understand other peoples opinons , you can stand on a pedestal and demand it banned etc etc and whilst you morally would be right you would be unfortunatly in the vocal minoraty , and you can slag me off and damn this post as much as you want but all I was saying is its a mutli billion dollar industry and its not going to shut down as a few and I’m sorry to say it is a few ask for it compared to the millions who watch it.
You write a blog which higlights the dangers women in porn face which is great and youve helped visitors on the site who struggle with partners and porn also great but what else have you acheived? bin the bunny have you really had much sucess with that? I”m not going to tell you what job I do but I know a lot of women and have discussed the subject of porn with them and the sad fact is that they are obviously aware of porn most of course dont watch it but as long as it dosent feature children or rape (though I know you view all porn as rape) they dont really care or give it a thought and unfortunatly you taking this hardline feminist approch is not going to work , unless you soften your approch and try to find a comprimise in 10 years time the porn industy will have gotten bigger and you will still be writing this blog having acheived very little
also I do question your point that no women make porn willingly what about the newer porn that is made by women for wormen? i direct your attention to this article http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/mar/22/porn-women and could post some more if for once you would be prepared to hear other opinoins
Firstly don’t lump me under the generic title of dude I can imagine how you would react if I referred to you as love or dear secondly my job is a counsellor and in my twenty two years of doing it I’ve done a lot of marriage counselling where porn has been an issue women feel degraded and betrayed by the fact their partner watches porn but in that time I’ve rarely had a women concerned by how the actress is treated or feels only about how they feel! I’ve helped women who feel pressurised into acting out fantasies that there partner has watched , parents concerned about their children watching porn and even children who have become addicted to porn and have unrealistic expectations about how sex will be when they become active , I’ve dealt with victims of domestic abuse both male and female , I don’t deal with victims of rape as they are handled by female colleagues but my sister was raped when she was 19 and my partner had her drink spiked a few years back so I’m fully aware of how predatory men can be!
What you seem to have failed to grasp is I support you , I agree that porn is inherently wrong but there has always been the desire for men to see the naked female form long before the invention of the internet and taking this hard line approach is not going to change the opinion of those sitting on the fence, in my profession there has to be a middle ground and by you not valuing or even acknowledging their opinion you are not going to achieve your goals , if you really want to make changes you are going to have to negotiate with politicians etc. people who have the power to change things and loathe though you may be about the idea you have to take a more moderate line
I re-read your first two comments, there was nothing in them to indicate that you ‘supported’ me in any way, all I saw was arrogant finger-wagging, ‘not all porn!’ ‘boys will be boys!’ and ‘I’m a man I won’t be allowed to have an opinion!’ (saying ‘I’m a man I won’t be allowed to have an opinion!’ is, very much, whining). You claim I am not ‘acknowledging’ opinions different to my own, this whole blog is about refuting such opinions, so how, then, have I failed to acknowledge them?
You seem to have a real problem with ‘disobedient’ women standing up to you, not a good sign in someone claiming to be a counsellor. I have a different opinion to you, I’m going to defend that opinion, that’s what it means to have an opinion! We are not in mediation here, I don’t actually owe you anything.
Your rage at my ‘disobedience’ is making you incoherent, you say in comment no. 4 that “I agree that porn is inherently wrong”, but in comment no. 3 you are still arguing ‘not all porn!’ and in comment no. 1 you said “to make the gross generalization that all porn is evil is wrong” – so you can see, I hope, how I came to the conclusion that you were a porn supporting dude. Also just the fact that it’s this particular post (I suspect it’s the only one you’ve actually read) that you left your comments under: the majority of hits this blog gets are from search engine terms for violent porn, and they all lead directly to this post.
I have never said all porn was coerced, I have said on this blog (over and over and over and over and over and over and over again) that the sex industry is a pyramid with a very broad base, the article you link to demonstrates that; a handful of privileged, university educated women behind the camera, producing ‘better’ porn. Did you actually read my post on ‘ethical’ porn where I pointed out how ‘ethical’ porn can still depict images of horrific sexual violence?
So-called ‘feminist’ porn is embedded in the mainstream porn industry, it uses the same performers, the same websites, the same award ceremonies; some so-called ‘feminist’ pornographers work with gonzo pornographers.
At it’s ‘best’ ‘feminist’ porn simply has better production values, and isn’t quite so horrifically violent, but then the bar is set very very low. What’s likely, since porn is addictive (as a counsellor, you should know this), is that ‘feminist’ porn simply acts as a gateway for the harder stuff, and the ‘feminist’ label just makes it easier for a man to pressurise a woman into doing something she doesn’t want.
You are right, my writing a blog has not changed the world, where have I ever claimed it has, or could? You are coming across as petty and spiteful now, again, not a good sign in someone claiming to be a counsellor. Why should I take a ‘moderate’ line? Why should I compromise on the idea that women are fully human? You claim to have read this blog, but you don’t appear to actually know what my politics are, did you read this post?
You say that the majority of the women you have ‘counselled’ do not care about the women in the porn their male partners are consuming – so what? The mainstream liberal ‘feminist’ narrative (the narrative that gets the most coverage in the mainstream press) is that porn is a free and empowering choice, for a woman to acknowledge that her partner is a misogynist who enjoys watching women being tortured may be too much to bear, so instead she sticks to the only narrative that male-dominated culture will allow her, her own self-esteem issues.
You say you’ve ‘helped’ women who are under pressure to copy porn, do you tell them they have an absolute right to say no to any and all unwanted sex, or do you tell them to ‘compromise’ as well?
You’re a councellor? Think you need to go to supervision and back to your therapist re male privelege. Freud had some hideous attitudes to women and sexist assault in the family and you dont seem to be able to put the claims of the sex industry and its media arm pornography in context of the huge rise in human trafficking to fund the sex trade plus the number of men that use drug bait and coercion on very young girls to get them into the trade, of which porn is one part. Given the fact that the porn industry refers to its female workforce as cunts, sluts, cumdumpsters and whores, lobbies against basic health and safety equipment such as condoms and promotes violence against women and children with its rape, barely legal, choking, fist fucking, double anal, double penetration, gaping and numerous other sexual violence genres, I’m not sure which bit of porn you are refering to any more. Page 3? Even that approached Sam Fox when she was still in school so you’re sepia tinted world of vanilla porn that most men use is just a fantasy that left town when Hustler and Max Hardcore took over the show 20 years back. If you are councelling domestic violence and dont recognise male sexist violence in the home would be a better description but means the DV charities won’t get funding at all, then you are simply projecting your denial on to your clients and are dangerously biaised against the women in the room.
Boom!
Andrew, whether or not some “lonely” dude doesn’t get to wank to images of abuse and degradation is utterly, laughably trivial in the context of the scale of the violence and harm occurring in the production of porn. Your “i’m not a loser who needs porn, i’m ! Successful, i’m ! Married, and of course [injuries requiring vaginal reconstruction, trauma,ptsd,, child trafficking,etc] is wrong, but WON’T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF POOR ANONYMOUS LONELY STRAWDUDE WHO TOTALLY ISN’T ME’S SAD BONER! Can you not hear how this sounds? Are you so lacking in perspective and compassion?
Andrew, comment 2: “i’m not going to tell you what job I do”
Andrew, comment 3: …but i’m a counsellor.
for some reason this cracks me up. Mate, we don’t care, and we didn’t ask.
Antipinlondon, can I say that I am in awe of your rebuttals and your ability to stay focused and firm and fair to these men whining about not having their every precious brainfart coddled.
I never mentioned page 3 and I really don’t understand why you are being so abrasive derrington or questioning how I do my job , I also didn’t mention Freud his views (though I studied them at university) are very outdated and are no longer used in therapy , I have to listen to each client individually I can’t just thrust my views on them regardless of what they are , I have read many blogs and articles on porn and many other subjects as we are encouraged to do so to try and get a better idea of people’s psyche , I don’t normally comment on them as I’m supposed to be unbiased but this is probably one of the best written blogs I’ve come across and you have obviously spent time researching this and I admire your passion , porn is an addiction and a dangerous one , you are right when you say even mainstream porn can lead to more violent porn I’ve seen it many times , men unfortunately are shallow and the majority regardless of what they may say don’t value the opinions of women and they certainly don’t care about how the women are treated in porn and the damage that occurs both mentally and physically , I’ve recently been dealing with a lap dancer who has been doing it for years she has become detached from society and has real trouble forming relationships as she has become desentised ,
When did I say I don’t recognise male sexual violence? Of course I recognise it but we don’t live in a world where the perportraitors can be taken outside and shot though I’m sure derrington would like that , derrington especially seem to have real anger issues and I realise she feels strongly on the subject and as I said before I support what you’re trying to but what is tearing into people like me who support you going to do? You need to dismantle the institution a brick at a time , were you aware of a campaign in England call “ban the lads mags” I’m assuming you are American and might not of come across mags like nuts and zoo , these are vile publications that use sexist language and images of women to tittalte all under the vale of supposed humour, anyway this campaign garnered support they even managed to get a hearing at parliament with politicians and the publishers but because they took such are hard line approach and refused to compromise they failed , journalists (Male and female) labeled them as fanatics they lost support of the general public and the magazines are still going , if they had started small got them to tone down their content etc. the campaign would still be going ganing more support and I’m sure now would be on the verge of shutting these publications down! I would hate to see this campaign go the same way as you’ve done some good foundation work here , you need to get this blog read by a wider audience I’m not sure how you go about this perhaps contacting a paper and trying to get your message out there linking this website.
I’m sure derrington will come back with some more intense comments drawing wild accusations of things I haven’t said , if somehow any of these comments lead you to the assumptions I support porn or any form of degradation towards women I apologise as that’s not my intention and I hope by taking the time to write a long response proves this
Thank you, I trained as a psychotherapist myself and certainly gender prejudice and the violence that comes from it seems a taboo topic in the therapy world although the pschotherapy world will talk till the cows come home about homophobic, racist and other social hierarchy violences that effect men. Somehow the therapy world is reluctant to talk about male on female, child or elderly person violence, I can only assume for fear it will tarnish the facade of male moral supremacy.
Andrew,
If you think spilling a lot of words is going to impress me, then you really haven’t been reading this blog very thoroughly.
I’m also not impressed by your concern trolling, or your patronising advice.
I’m also not impressed by your displaying damaged women to somehow ‘prove’ your non-misogynistic credentials – you’re supposed to keep that shit confidential you know.
And make up your mind, you were going on about ‘feminist’ porn before, now you’re back to saying you don’t support porn.
Hi Derrington,
[In case it’s not obvious, her comment and Andrew’s latest comment were both in moderation at the same time, she is replying to me, not him!]
You’re right, psychiatry/psychology has a very long history of abusing women (and other minorities too). To my mind the biggest problem with the field is that it isn’t radical enough, it is about making people functional in a damaged society, rather than actually changing society.
I wasn’t trying to spill words or be patronising and I’m sorry if my comments have come across like that , I accept some of the things I’ve said might seem contradictory but you raise a lot of points on things and I was just trying to show some other points of view , of course all case files are confidential and I’ve mentioned no names or any specifics I certainly wasn’t trying to parade “damaged women” as you put it , that’s the last thing I would want to do , my comments are obviously being misconstrued and yes I did say I wasn’t going to say what I did and then I did but that was only because I thought if I told you what I did for a job you might think I had a bit more insight into the problems but I really don’t want to get in an argument with you because fundamentally you are right , I wasn’t trying to give patronising advice I thought it might help but I will leave this blog alone now as I don’t want these exchanges to detract from what you are doing , good luck in the future and I genuinely hope you make some inroads into dismantling the system
Every single sentence in Andrews last comment is about trying to make himself look impressive or to diminish or traduce someone else. Every single one. Also, getting angry when anger is the only compassionate response = “anger issues”
Its interesting that andrew has so little awareness of himself and his own attitudes around porn and male privelege and then seeks to pin derogatory labels such as aggression and abuse against anyone that uses simple facts against his arguements. Do you find the truth difficult andrew? Or are you going to twist that into i never mentioned the truth like you did when i asked you which porn you were refering to ie page 3? I think youre being disengenious andrew and also using your clients material on a public blog is such a professional breach of confidentiality that if i had your surname, id pass this over to your professional standards association. Or is that my anger issues again?!! 😄
[NB: again, the last three comments were all in moderation at the same time.]
Andrew, you are a condescending, disingenuous git (who obviously hasn’t read the blog beyond this one post, otherwise you wouldn’t be trying to ‘present’ ‘feminist’ porn to me as if it was something I wasn’t already aware of and hadn’t written about extensively already), so, frankly, good riddance.
Derrington, Redburn, thank you for your comments.
He must be a crap counsellor.
I think Andrew cannot tell the difference between someone reporting the use of violent hate speech – cunt, bitch, etc – and someone using it themselves which is why he thought I was angry. That mistake there shows why he absolutely should not be a counsellor. Certainly wouldn’t let him inside my head! xx
Hi , I’ve been a fan of your blog for about a year and I cant belive some of the arseholes you have to deal with on here and I really admire how you cope , though I must say I thought you were a little hard on the last guy , yeah he said a couple of contradictory things but on the most part he really seemed to be supporting you and you and a couple of others really ripped into him and really nastily too about his ability as a father , husband and his job when you dont really know anything about him , it just seemed a bit catty to me thats all
Frankly, no, I wasn’t. He was patronising and dishonest (whining about how he wouldn’t be ‘allowed’ to have an opinion because he was a man; claiming to have read the blog then making really basic arguments as if I hadn’t refuted them already).
If that’s ‘support’ I can live without it. The obvious misogynists are easy to spot and avoid, it’s the men like Andrew, who try to be subtle, but are really just manipulating you and really enjoying taking up your time and energy, that you really need to be wary of.
And he very much was being unprofessional, talking about his female relatives and clients like that.
PS: ‘catty’ is misogynist language, please refrain from using it on this blog.
Janet, the guy said one thing and did another, which in my book is hypocrisy. Thats what i was criticizing in his ability to have honest relationships with women such as his wife or daughters. If you have a black husband or son you cannot be a good partner mother if your jabbing at them with racism. Its demeaning their basic humanity. Same with sexism if you have wife and daughters, sisters, mother etc. andrew stated that the porn industry had to be dealt with on a brick by brick basis, that it was our job as females to ask nicely for men to stop debasing our humanity and promoting us as objects to have sex done to. Therein lies his hypocrisy, you dont judge someone on how they defend themselves if your truly an ally of human equality, you judge the people that are attacking it and the viciousness of their attack. Defending a soft responce to people that call women and female children cunts and sluts and advocate coercion and violence towards them is disengenious. If he is an ally he would see their hatred rather than telling us off. Therefore, not buying it …
Hi , I’ve re-read his comments and you are probablly right , I didn’t read them like that but I suppose it how each person interprets them and you have had plenty of experiance on here, he certainly had’nt read your blog in any depth as you clearly state you are from London and he thought you were american lol.
One interesting point he did raise though was the “ban the lads mags” campaign , I remember that well and it does seem to have just disappered and they are still widely available in supermarkets etc.
Sorry for the use of ‘catty’ but the way I didn’t think
Janet, I don’t think there was ever an attempt to outright ban lads mags, just to get them covered with blank covers, and/or moved to the top shelf (I remember Object doing action putting them in paper bags).
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/press/coop-bans-lads-mags-from-its-stores-8804155.html
So Andrew was actually wrong to say ‘we’ didn’t achieve anything.
Actually Janet, Andrew was refering to me as being American whereas I’m English and was on the Object Lads Mags activism. It was stopped after there were threats to sue us for protesting on store property I think, or that might have been rumour. I think stating certain actual porn genres to Andrew made him state that I was being aggressive rather than he doesn’t like to be confronted as a man by the truth of porn hate media. And myself and Redburn were merely pointing out the huge hypocrisy in his statements and attitude which I don’t believe deserves being called ‘catty’ for.
Apropos the above:
http://lauramcnally.com/2014/10/17/psychology-vs-social-justice/
this video is shocking and appaling and made me feel sick , what made me feel sicker though was sending a link to this to some (in fact a lot of my male friends) and the ambivelence it was met with shocked me it was literally “so she gets paid” and “if she cant take the pain dont go into the industry” these are good friends and people I’ve known and trusted for years. and reading through some of the response’s of men you’ve had on here whilst alot of them are serial dickheads some of them might be “normal” and whilst stuff like this shocks me and you and other women what can we do about it if the men are aware of it but still dont care?
Hello Tracy,
I’m sorry you’ve had such an unpleasant experience.
To be honest, I don’t think there is much point in spending our time and energy trying to convince misogynist men not to be misogynists any more; as you said, they don’t care.
(How society raises boys, is, on the other hand, very much a feminist issue.)
What I think is far more important is reaching other women, convincing them that we do actually live under a patriarchy, and men do hate us.
If women resisted en masse, if we refused to support misogynist men, and if we supported less privileged women who have fewer options for saying no to men, we could change things. Not just making effective laws, but social changes that remove women from male harm.
It can be quite a shock realising that so many men have psychopathic tendencies towards women and children. I believe that its cultural training that brings them to this understanding of women and children being things as opposed to people, and what can be socially trained in can be socially trained out. If you look at the inroads made into racism and homophobia, there is hope. We just need to stop talking about sexual assault and call it sexist assault, domestic violence should be repositioned as sexist violence and so on so that people actually link the violence with the attitude. Sexual media (porn) should also be regulated under the same regime that is applied to all other media footage of real people which is banned from using hate speech and using dehumanising images/footage of people from certain social groups as a way of preventing psychopathic violence towards them as a group.
Very well put Derrington!
[…] Left under this post here. […]
It is hard to say whether porn causes men to hate women, or if men who hate women tend to watch porn. All I can say is that I do watch porn (religiously), and I absolutely loathe women. I can’t infer causality from this, though. I was unmoved by your attempts to reveal the horrors of porn by posting that video. You and that video amuse me because you and those whores think that what was shown is torture (“I’m just not used to people being mean to me”…delicious). I’m not capable of sympathy, but even if I were, I wouldn’t have any for some bitch that decided to get stuffed with cocks for a few dollars instead of working at Burger King. Someone should expose you to true torture so you can quit this pointless tirade and move on to a more worthwhile obsession.
Clearly you take pride in your ability to defend your opinion so fervently, without consequence. You should keep in mind that the only reason you can do this is because men have allowed you to do it. The combined strength and technological prowess of the men in this world could easily be used to enslave all women (then you could more justifiably whine about a patriarchal society). The vitriol you spew is misdirected. You should be aiming it at people like me, not at casual porn consumers. I would happily bust a nut to a video of you being passed around to 60 different men. What’s more, it would please me if you didn’t like it, because I despise you that fiercely.
Do you think it’s possible for me to truly feel this way, or am I just trying to toy with you? Would it make a difference in your disposition toward me? I think your opinion of me was already formed just by noting my name (male).
Normally don’t comment on sites, anyway, my 10c :
1) Don’t feed the trolls. If someone pops up, says something moronic, just ignore them. Having watched the video above, its impossible to argue for the porn industry. People that enter it very rarely do so because its at the top of their list of life goals. They do so overwelmingly
2) Porn is about total control, violence, and the ability to do anything to a woman a male sees fit. Not only must she accept this, she must enjoy it. Plain and simple. Not free choice, or whatever that clown was arguing. What I find really worrying is that there is a market for it and as someone said above, a really big one.
3) IMHO, pornography is like drugs. The war on drugs has failed quite spectacularly. A war on porn would (has?) also failed. It’s now so mainstream that both female and male co-workers talk about it openly at work.
I think it should be viewed as a symptom of a failed society, rather than an isolated problem. I also disagree with this being a feminist issue. The issue is that these are people being lied to, used and abused and that it is unacceptable. That this is not blindingly obvious to society at large makes me sad.
Let’s take a moment to examine Matthew’s comment. He is a misogynist who openly declares himself a misogynist (“I absolutely loathe women”), and he expresses his misogyny through his porn consumption (“I do watch porn (religiously)”) – at least, let’s hope that’s the only chance he gets to express his misogyny.
He isn’t sure if his porn consumption or his misogyny came first; that’s fine, as I’ve never claimed that there is a clear-cut cause-and-effect relationship between porn and misogyny (see what I wrote here:
Yes, patriarchy existed before the current global, industrialised sex industry, before pornography as it exists now. Patriarchy is not a monolith, it changes and adapts and varies across time and space; in Iran, wearing make-up can get you arrested, so wearing make-up becomes an act of rebellion, while in the west, a lack of make-up can be penalised, but both are products of patriarchy.
Men have always had ways of communicating to each other the correct way to treat women; pornography is the current way of doing that for our globalised, atomised age. It’s no coincidence that the increase in the availability, mainstreaming and brutality of pornography has coincided with (white, western, middle-class, able-bodied) women making social and economic gains, it is a parallel back-lash against women’s advancements.
The reality of patriarchy now is that it is inseparably entwined with, and propped up by, the sex industry. Attacking pornography is attacking patriarchy.)
His misogyny also means that he doesn’t see sexual violence against women as real violence, despite the fact that he admits he watches it because he hates women. He thinks I’m wrong to call the sexual violence committed against the woman in the video above torture (his focus on her saying people were being mean to her is a red herring, she is very clearly being subjected to sexual violence), because he doesn’t see women as fully human. ‘Real torture’ isn’t something that happens to women on porn sets – I imagine he sees real torture as something that is done to men; the congruence between, say, the torture of prisoners in Abu Ghraib and your average gonzo porn is obviously lost on him.
He reveals again that he doesn’t see violence against women as real violence when he says: “I would happily bust a nut to a video of you being passed around to 60 different men. What’s more, it would please me if you didn’t like it, because I despise you that fiercely.” He imagines there is a possible reality where I, or any woman, could be ‘passed around’ 60 men and enjoy that experience! The phrase ‘passed around’ implicitly includes a lack of consent, an object is passed around, not a human being with full agency. He doesn’t see the mob rape of a woman as real violence or real torture.
There’s also this: “The combined strength and technological prowess of the men in this world could easily be used to enslave all women (then you could more justifiably whine about a patriarchal society).”
Let’s ignore the fact that the first computer programmer was a woman (Ada Lovelace), and that back when computer programmes were hole-punched pieces of card it was considered ‘women’s work’, the idea that society is something men actively produce and women passively consume is purely a male supremacist fantasy.
As for the rest of it, yes, men could potentially be violent enough to enslave all women, in many parts of the world women are still legal or de facto chattel – but what’s his point, beyond quit whining or else?
It’s even more ridiculous when later he whines about me ‘pre-judging’ him for being male! This is one of the main tenets of male supremacy, it doesn’t matter how violent or dangerous men are, we are not allowed to acknowledge that violence or express any fear or caution around that violence; then, when something bad does happen to us, it’s our own stupid fault for not knowing that men are dangerous.
And let’s just have a quick laugh at his feeble attempt at ~psychological manipulation~ is he really a misogynist, or does he just go around leaving misogynist comments on feminist bogs to ‘toy with’ women (which would make him a misogynist anyway)!? Why would I even care!?
Tim,
Re. point 1, I answer the comments I want to, when I want to, how I want to. It’s not feeding the trolls if I get to make a useful point, or just show up some idiot dudebro for the waste of space he is.
Most women don’t realise how much men truly hate them, having this comment thread to point to is useful in that regard.
Re. point 3, I don’t think the trade in drugs and the trade in human beings are the same thing (see what I wrote here), and I don’t have the same approach to these two different things either (see here for what I think is the best legal approach to porn).
As to your claim for porn not being a feminist issue, I disagree, this is something that harms women far more than it harms men, and it harms all women in that it reinforces male supremacy. You also dismiss feminism as being some kind of ‘isolated’ fringe concern, too small compared with ‘society’; women are half the world, our concerns are ‘society’.
In fact, that was the first comment I have ever left on a feminist blog. I don’t even remember how I got to this site, to be honest. I was merely very angry yesterday, and so directed it at the first target that presented itself. Truth be told, I don’t bother enough with women to hate them. I don’t concern myself with feminist issues one way or another. I did mean a few things I said, though. I truly can’t sympathize with porn actresses, because I literally can’t sympathize, period. I also think that there are worse tortures one can experience. I do think your crusade will prove to be fruitless in the end. I also think that your demands are too bold. To suggest that porn should not be watched is absurd. There is amateur porn, where couples post their sex videos online for others to see; this is not exploitative. Surely you’ve tried to rebut the accusation of being a prude numerous times, but think about it more objectively, and you just might realize that you are one. There is nothing wrong with people having an orgasm by watching others have orgasms (in the case of amateur porn). Lastly, you certainly do amuse me. I structured each sentence hoping for a particular type of response, for amusement’s sake, and I certainly got that response (where it was almost as if you were trying to demonstrate my apparent misogyny to use as ammunition, even though I made that demonstration quite clearly myself). In all honesty, I’m more of a misanthrope than a misogynist, so you were half right.
Note that in my last comment, FuckYou091393 should be “Matthew”. Though, the former is still appropriate, from my perspective.
And the only reason you are alive Matthew is that your mother gave birth and fed you for the first two years of your life. What a shame she didn’t think that you might turn out the way you have – riven with hatred in a cesspit of your own excrement. Carry on wanking – it keeps the gene pool safe.
FuckYou091393/Matthew,
If you think your ‘reveal’ makes you look clever, you’re an idiot. If you get angry and lash out with misogynistic behaviour, you are a misogynist. If I punched someone in the face then said I didn’t really mean it, I would still have punched someone in the face. Be a grown-up and own your own shitty behaviour.
As for ‘amateur’ porn, you have no way of knowing if what you are watching was filmed or made public with the consent of all involved, or even if it is actually ‘amateur’ (ie, not filmed on a porn set), as ‘amateur’ is merely another genre, a look that can be faked. Any filmed rape is ‘amateur’ porn, so the label ‘amateur’ is meaningless.
Also, the popularity of leaked nudes/sex tapes and men threatening women with leaked nudes/sex tapes shows that the demand is for violation, for something obtained without even the meager ‘consent’ of a porn contract. Men want to feel like they are taking something away from women, that’s why they consume porn.
And if you think the female orgasms in porn are real, you really are an idiot.
Interesting that fuck you matthew says he was very angry and then found himself on a feminist website where he then took out his anger. His approach reminds me of domestic violence of the internet – angry man finds himself the first nearby female to shout at and abuse. How predictable.
Yes. Like I said, I hope he doesn’t have easy access to any women in real life.
Of course, Fuck You Matthew found his way here looking for violent porn; I get a large number of search engine hits for violent porn every day, and this post gets a large number of views every day.
I am trying to stop watching porn because I know it’s wrong but I am a bit nervous to watch the video because it says it’s traumatizing. I am only a teenager, should I find some other thing to root into my brain that porn is absolutely bad or will this video never leave my head?
Also, forgive me if I am wrong, but when you say ” men hate women” it sounds like you assume ALL men watch porn. I know many if not most do, but I think it’s a bit of a generalization to say “men hate women”. When I am myself, (not watching porn) I do not hate women, I think of them as equals and have plenty of friends who are girls and do not think of them sexually or lesser than me. If I said something offensive please just tell me, it will help me to change more than insulting me will.
Dear Help,
Under your circumstances, I would not recommend watching the video, there are plenty of posts (over 1000!) on this blog you can read, and they contain trigger warnings for upsetting material.
When I say ‘men’ I am talking about men as a class, not any specific individual man.
I am offended by the fact that you just assume I am going to insult you, if you had read around a bit, you would see that when men leave genuine messages, I respond in kind.
Yeah, sorry about that. I had only read a few comments here and there before I made my comment, but I see now. Merry Christmas and good luck with the goal of this website (I am the same person as help but I didn’t like that name)
No worries mate.
And as if to prove my point, this was one of today’s search engine terms:
I could express rage in a more destructive manner than watching porn…
Doesn’t it just disgust you that there are people who respect and look up to me, many of which are women? Believe it or not, those who know me would never label me as an idiot or a misogynist. All they see is a helpful, responsible, and trustworthy man. You suggest I’m not clever, but one must be a little clever to have my views and be held in higher esteem than someone like you, who is probably more hated and ridiculed than celebrated and taken seriously, despite your good intentions. People will continue to watch porn at least until the Sun expands and swallows the Earth (that’s billions of years of watching people fuck), and your legacy will be one of utter failure until there is no one left to observe legacies. Admittedly, your determination is admirable, given your bleak chances of success.
It is a shame you chose to direct your passionate personality toward something so pointless. If you were looking to start a revolution, you should have chosen a cause which would not deprive people of their most efficient means of satisfying their carnal desires. You would be better off surrendering to a life of hedonism. You’ll enjoy yourself more, and you will have made no less of a change to this world than if you were to continue along this futile path.
Who are you to challenge our base instincts? Do you think “human compassion” (it was hard to type those words) is a more powerful motivator, and people will see your point and agree to give up something that gives them an easy and cheap orgasm? We’re talking here about something that gives you a risk-free opioid high. You think you can topple something like that? Go ahead, and I’ll stand idly by and watch you spin the hamster wheel.
You’re one hell of a spitfire. What a waste.
Have you seen porn? Very often they do want you to see the abuse and how brutal the scene is. They leave the girl crying in pain right in the scene as a form of entertainment. (One example was a site I once saw called “Anal Destruction” that was full of videos like this.)
The abuse is right out in the open. Don’t think that people who watch porn are innocent. They’re all sadists in one form or another. It’s not just a sick industry. It’s a sick society.
Fuck You Matthew,
You are very obviously lying when you say people respect you and look up to you.
Matthew @ 11.03am, if you are not just Fuck You Matthew making another feeble attempt to ~manipulate~ me, please pick a more unique screen name.
That fool who posted at 11:03 am was not me.
How could you possibly know how those around me perceive me? Many people make use of facades, so you shouldn’t be so disbelieving. One must be careful about which opinions he expresses in his life outside of the internet. If you don’t appear tolerant and gracious, you don’t get far. You might be surprised by the true viewpoints harbored by those who profess to follow your cause. This is why you are sure to fail. Those in power may publicly show support for your movement in order to save face, then they may go home and watch an 18-year-old get gang-banged. Those with the authority to realize your wishes don’t want them to be realized. You’re not someone whose voice many people listen to. Maybe you’re given to the illusion that you get the best of the “dudebros” that visit your blog in the far corner of the internet. If that’s satisfying enough for you, then continue on. If you’re hoping your effect will be more widespread, then prepare for disappointment.
Fuck You Matthew,
You are not telling me anything I don’t already know. You are a misogynist and an all around nasty piece of work, and I’m pretty sure lots of women can see through your ‘nice guy’ facade – it’s a survival skill most women have, and part of that skill set involves not being seen to notice.
I’m sure you get a hard-on, imagining that you are somehow upsetting or intimidating me with your comments – I don’t care that you are a two-faced misogynist, I know most men are, that’s why I’m a radical feminist, not a liberal feminist, and I have no interest in trying to talk misogynist men out of being misogynists. I let your comments through so that other women, women who may not actually believe how much men hate them, can see the reality of ‘nice guys’ like you.
What i think is sad about fuck up matthew is his constant need to destroy. Nothing he says is new to any feminist, we know we are pushing water uphill as have the women before us. And despite himself he needs to comment. Why the need to destroy if he really did believe we are getting nowhere? And destruction is the hallmark of the truly uncreative, those without the imagination to see a brave new world. Fuck up matthew is a creature of the past, we are building a future.
What makes you think enough women see these messages to actually make a difference? I’m not sure why you continue to focus so much on my misogyny. I hate all people, equally. Of course, to you, my hatred of men is acceptable or at the very least, can be ignored. That is why your efforts are meaningless. Your position is heavily biased, and intelligent people don’t buy into ideas borne of bias. What you end up with is nothing but idiots for followers. You are not a “human rights activist”. You are a dirty snake seeking to reverse roles, not equalize them. Indeed, I am a “nasty piece of work”, but my flaws are hidden from view, and yours are completely exposed. I imagine you are very much hated by most. I’m betting even the majority of women would stand against you. Being hated is not the best way to make a difference. People will oppose your views simply out of spite.
It would please me if you could no longer produce valid counterarguments (though, it feels like we’ve already reached that point), but this would not cause me to get a hard-on. That is what porn is for. As for women seeing through my facade, this can only happen if they are given adequate chance to do so. This survival skill you speak of is nonsense. If it existed, you wouldn’t find a women’s shelter on every corner. You’re too blinded to see the culpability in your own gender. You can only see those of the other.
Speaking of culpability, hardly anyone would sympathize with porn actresses. Unless they were kidnapped, they made the initial decision to walk into the studio. In the modern world, there are many other opportunities to get by, financially. You’re targeting the wrong gender, believe it or not. You should be scolding the whores that make that decision in the first place. You are just a common man-hater. This is unfortunate for you, given that you need the cooperation of the men you demean in order to realize your plans. Have you ever been accused of being stupid before? Maybe the accuser was well-grounded in that assessment.
Just something to think about.
Fuck You Matthew,
What exactly does ‘man hater’ mean? All I (or any woman) has to do to be called a ‘man hater’ is say no to men, or point out the violence men commit against women every day. You said you would like to masturbate to a recording of me being raped by 60 men, how is there an equivalence between our behaviour?
You may hate all people equally, but I’m willing to bet you’ve never told a man you want to masturbate to images of him being gang raped. And if you do ever want to act out your hatred in the real world, it will be far easier for you to victimise women than to victimise adult men.
What evidence is there anywhere on this blog that I want to reverse patriarchy? Are you so impoverished of thought that the only way you can envisage women’s liberation is as women treating men as badly as men treat women?
How do I ‘demean’ men by speaking the truth about them? You admit you despise women, but say I ‘demean’ men by pointing out misogyny exists – your arguments do not add up.
I don’t actually need men, I need women; women are half the world, we have the political potential, but thousands of years of patriarchal conditioning isn’t going to be undone overnight.
You are doing my work for me, any woman reading this comment thread isn’t going to be feeling remotely sympathetic towards you.
I do not require and would never desire sympathy. That is the difference between me and women in general. I’m not nearly so pathetic.
By sympathy, I mean agreement with your side of the argument, and I notice you haven’t answered any of the other points I made.
From Dictionary.com’s definition of ‘sympathy’:
6. agreement, consonance, or accord.
Well, if it should please you, here are responses to your other points:
– You are a man-hater due mostly to your methodologies, as opposed to your views. There have been many instances of rudeness on your part in response to male posters because of your assumption that they consume porn. Even if they do consume porn, that would not warrant your rudeness. I have my doubts that you would respond in such a way to a female that professes to watch porn.
– Of course I would not want to watch a video of a man being gang-raped. I’m not gay. Also, I was embellishing before. I do not watch videos where the performers are obviously being raped. I also doubt that all or even most porn videos feature even concealed rape. I wouldn’t trust a “radical” feminist’s word about this. I imagine a great many videos feature consensual sex, despite your beliefs.
– There is no evidence that you wish to reverse patriarchy in your comments. Then again, there is also no evidence that most female porn actresses are raped, so don’t speak to me of evidence. The video was anecdotal. They may not like shooting porn, but they do it for the pay, much like a custodian reluctantly cleans filthy public bathrooms for the paycheck. As far as I am concerned, women’s “liberation” has already happened in North America and most countries in Europe. Get your ass out of this comfort zone of yours and into a place where women really need liberation, like the Middle East. Maybe you’ll have greater appreciation for the lifestyle you have in Europe (I assume you’re from England). If men were as terrible as you perceive them to be, they would swiftly take that lifestyle away from you and render you a sex slave. Combined, men could do this to all women using physical strength alone. Yet, they do not. That is very gracious of them, seeing as they’d have much to gain and very little to lose if they did. Throughout history, the weak have always been at the mercy of the strong. In ancient times, the weak were usually taken as slaves. You’re in a fortunate era in human history. Honestly, I couldn’t care less either way.
– Your mistake is assuming my perspective is common among men. Of course misogyny exists, but you seem to attack men as a whole for the transgressions (from where you’re standing) of some. Just because a guy likes masturbate to sex doesn’t mean he hates women. You equate the two far too simplistically.
– Your man-hating is evident in this point. Why would you need women anymore than you need men? This point is telling, because it seems contradictory to your assertion that you do not wish to reverse patriarchy. This point suggests that you would be fine to do away with men and have women “inherit the Earth”.
– I do nothing in your favor with my comments. My comments, if anything, reveal the weaknesses in your cause. You’re too proud and determined to see that.
Rudeness!!
Men rape, batter, murder and mutilate women and girls everyday, but me being ‘rude’ to men makes me a ~man-hater~!
If you bothered to read any of the other posts I have written on this blog, you would see that I take down arguments made by women all the time, so the idea that I’m only interested in disagreeing with men is completely unfounded.
“Also, I was embellishing before. I do not watch videos where the performers are obviously being raped.”
But you did say you wanted to masturbate to images of me being gang raped. There is plenty of evidence on this blog about the coercive nature of the sex industry – if you only see rape when a woman is literally kidnapped off the street, you won’t see a lot of rape.
“There is no evidence that you wish to reverse patriarchy in your comments.”
But yet you accused me of that anyway (“You are a dirty snake seeking to reverse roles, not equalize them”), so you are admitting that your arguments against me are made up.
“Get your ass out of this comfort zone of yours and into a place where women really need liberation, like the Middle East.”
This is a stale old argument, especially coming from someone who obviously doesn’t give a shit about what happens to women anywhere in the world. Yes, women’s oppression is different in different parts of the world, that doesn’t mean I can’t talk about what happens to women in the global north.
“If men were as terrible as you perceive them to be, they would swiftly take that lifestyle away from you and render you a sex slave. Combined, men could do this to all women using physical strength alone. Yet, they do not. That is very gracious of them, seeing as they’d have much to gain and very little to lose if they did.”
So your basic argument is, if you are not a literal slave, you can’t complain about anything? I think what is happening here is that you only see ‘slavery’ when it looks like the Transatlantic slave trade. Slavery does still exist, all over the world, and women trafficked into the sex industry are used to make porn.
“Just because a guy likes masturbate to sex doesn’t mean he hates women. You equate the two far too simplistically.”
Pornographers (and many porn consumers) are very honest about how porn is about domination. You’ve made this obvious too, when you said you wanted to masturbate to images of me being gang-raped, but now you’re trying to back-track on what you said.
“Your man-hating is evident in this point. Why would you need women anymore than you need men? This point is telling, because it seems contradictory to your assertion that you do not wish to reverse patriarchy. This point suggests that you would be fine to do away with men and have women “inherit the Earth”.”
I am not wasting my resources trying to persuade misogynist men not to be misogynists any more; it is a waste of time and politically unnecessary. No group in power has ever given up that power out of the kindness of their hearts, they do it out of political expediency, because it would have cost too much to do otherwise.
“I do nothing in your favor with my comments. My comments, if anything, reveal the weaknesses in your cause. You’re too proud and determined to see that.”
You are an arrogant windbag – you haven’t actually disproved any of my arguments yet, just said ‘oh no it isn’t’ over and over.
Can you see all the contradictions in what you are writing?
You say that women have no ability to spot a predator, but, at the same time, when I talk about violent men, you call me a ‘man-hater’ and say that because I am not a literal slave, nothing bad is happening to me.
You also say that men who masturbate to porn are not misogynists, but previously (as well as saying that you wanted to masturbate to images of me being gang raped) you said “Those in power may publicly show support for your movement in order to save face, then they may go home and watch an 18-year-old get gang-banged.”
You admit that you are a misogynist, you say men generally must hate me for talking about men’s violence, but you also call me a ‘man-hater’ for standing up to male violence. This is patriarchy, describing even an awareness of male domination as ‘hating’ the dominant class.
It’s not just pornographers and porn consumers who are honest about the degrading nature of porn, pimps and traffickers use it to break women and girls into prostitution:
This guy is a wind up merchant
Yes, but I think he really means it, he is definitely a misogynist, and he most likely is getting a sexual thrill from taking up my time and getting my attention. I don’t think there’s any meaningful difference between him and any other misogynist.
Like I said, his comments are doing my work for me, by laying out how men really think about women.
Let’s reiterate on Fuck You Matthew’s double standard:
Unless a woman is literally enslaved, there is no misogyny.
Unless a woman is literally kidnapped off the streets, there is no coercion in pornography production.
A man can tell a woman that he would gleefully masturbate over a recording of her being gang-raped by 60 men, but pornography has nothing to do with domination and woman-hating.
But!
If a woman dares to say she isn’t going to shit away her resources trying to convince misogynist men not to be misogynists, she’s a man-hater who wants to instigate a reverse-patriarchy!
That Derrington character is spot-on. I enjoyed this discourse, but your tactics have become stale. The “sexual thrill” I was experiencing from gaining your attention has subsided, so I will now move on to some other perversion.
You now have permission (because as a woman, you need it) to gloat about how you were triumphant (because I know you think you were) over this “dudebro”. Feel free to dissect this comment, refer to me in the third-person in your next reply as if I am a museum display, and somehow demonstrate that men as a whole seek the subjugation of women based on nothing but my fabricated views.
You are very quick to assume things about people. I might not even be a man. I might be a woman whose life is teeming with opportunity and success, and is tired of women like you soliciting pity for their failures by villainizing those you think are responsible for them (men); so I came to this blog to toy with one such woman. I could be thinking that you ignore the plight of victims of other types of abuse by focusing so much on porn. If I were this woman, your arguments against me so far would mean nothing.
You can post all of the videos and news stories you like, but they will never demonstrate anything but isolated incidents (like these comments). It’s like trying to call for the extermination of all black people because you post videos and news stories about people dying in drive-by shootings perpetrated by black gang members. You’d just be looked upon as a hate-monger, and nothing more.
I wonder when the UK government are going to start acknowledging that sexism is as dangerous as racism to both women and children? Am heartily fed up with how they skirt around covering up male supremacy as the reason so many policemen sided with child rapists, women rapists and batterers rather than the victim.
Fuck You Matthew,
You are very obviously a man and a misogynist; your views are not ‘fabricated’ because only a misogynist man would leave comments like you have left.
Yet again, your attempts at ~psychological manipulation~ are pathetic and obvious.
Your claim that I have no evidence, that it is all just ‘isolated incidents’, has no basis in reality, this blog is my argument; you obviously haven’t bothered to read any of it.
Also, you have already demonstrated that you are incapable of even seeing violence against women, so it’s hardly a surprise that you think it doesn’t exists.
Your comparison of my aim to liberate women from male violence with a call for “the extermination of all black people” is disgusting, and has no basis in reality – you display your misogyny and male supremacism again by claiming that women’s liberation is somehow the same as ‘exterminating’ men.
Why dont you get back to pulling the wings off flys or whatever else passes for fun down in your grotty little basement.
I know, what a buffoon: hey, I’ve just proven that misogyny doesn’t exist by being a misogynist, then claiming I’m ~really a woman~ checkmate feminists!
At no time did I say that misogyny doesn’t exist. In fact, I said the exact opposite: “Of course misogyny exists, but you seem to attack men as a whole for the transgressions (from where you’re standing) of some.” Clearly, you are wound up, as your replies hinge on words that were never said (misinterpretations abound).
Regarding the very real possibility of my being a woman, I simply stated that you assume many things. The point I made was that I can take on any persona I wish for whatever purpose I wish (this idea is important because it can extend to real life, as well), rendering many of your arguments against me null. I knew before even making my first post that you are not interested in rational arguments. Your entire campaign is probably a result of a wrongdoing against you in the past. It’s a means for you to lash out. That is why your convictions are not well-grounded and you cannot be trusted to not embellish and twist truths. They’re rooted in too much emotion. My immense hatred for essentially anything combined with the fact that I especially hate radical activists of any sort made you a prime target as an outlet for my rage. You grab onto bait quite readily, which is why I posted in the first place.
Derrington, what is it you think I’m doing right now, if not pulling the wings off of flies? I have her responding to every one of my comments. I’m here for entertainment, and she’s here to prove a point that no one thinks much about. Porn will always be freely accessible due to the internet, so I have no stake in this pointless campaign of hers, which means I must only be here for the entertainment value. Therefore, she is like an insignificant fly, and I’m tugging at her wings. Fantastic analogy, Derrington. The “grotty little basement” part was just a tad inaccurate, though.
I was wrong; her attention is still giving me that “sexual thrill”. Oh, what a pervert you guys must think I am. Well, what can else can be expected?! I am a man, so you say.
Fuck You Buffoon, I thought you were leaving?
And nobody in the whole wide world believes you are actually a woman.
You are a misogynist because your actions are misogynist, that’s what being a misogynist is, it isn’t a special snowflake internal identity.
I predict Fuck You Buffoon’s next stop will be the blog of an African-American activist who blogs about police violence, where he will proceed to ‘prove’ that racism is no big deal by: 1. Claiming the surveillance footage of a black man being brutalised by a police officer doesn’t show any real violence, because the black man ‘knew what he was getting into’ and was ‘asking for it’ (as an added bonus, he may describe part of the video as ‘delicious’). 2. Saying he would love to see a video of the blogger being lynched. 3. Claiming to be black himself. 4. Saying that black people accurately describing white people’s racist violence are being ‘rude’, which is exactly the same as wanting to exterminate white people.
You have no stake in anything because you have no humanity matthew. And its not something to boast about.
That would indeed be real violence. In that case, the police officer would be beating the man. I would, however, not use that video as evidence that all white police officers like to beat black people. That’s something you would do, if this blog is any indication.
I don’t know what you’re trying to prove with this point. I already stated numerous times that I am an all-around hateful person. It is interesting that you would use this example. I think you did because you know people would react more to it than to “porn violence”. It just goes to show that even you know on some level that your cause resonates with very few people. If you had any confidence in your cause, you would not need to resort to another form of abuse to move your readers against me.
What is truly hilarious is that Fuck You Buffoon still thinks he’s actually proven the point he was trying to make with his shitty behaviour. It’s quintessential masculine arrogance, his complete overestimation of his own abilities and worth.
Getting testy, are we? Your replies contain less reason and more irrelevant insults and filler content as we go. Am I serving as a good museum display?
I just watched a gang-bang in your honor. I just thought you should know.
What was that Fuck You Buffoon, I wasn’t really listening?
[four hours of fart noises]
Ah yes, I though so.
Happy new year! Four hours of fart noises made me laugh!
[four hours of fart noises]
[four hours of fart noises]
[PS: you are so fucking obvious, at least leave it a week before you switch IP addresses]
Here’s another search engine term demonstrating how benign ‘amateur’ porn is:
Says it all really
Men are shit. Genetic dead-ends. The sooner they die off, the better. If only they’d kill each other faster… they are a disease.
NAMETHEPROBLEM. COM
#MEN=SHIT
As someone who was exposed and has struggled with porn addiction since a very young age this is definitely an eye opener. As of late I quit watching pornography and have faltered a few times over the past month but every time the temptation arises or the craving arises I will remember this video and how objectified and abused these women actually are and it will be my motivation. Thank you for this post. I really do hope that the industry gets shut down. Had there not been an industry when I was a kid I wouldn’t have been exposed to this stuff. I apologize to all the women out there whom I have harmed by watching videos!
Thank you for your comment Brandon
No one forces you women to be sluts and go do porn. Porn is an extremely easy and over paid job. Punishment and pain will come with any easy job you decide to take. Prostitution, stripping, being a drug dealer and porn have their consequences. You don’t like it? Then get an education and don’t take the easy rout. Everyone likes porn. If you don’t youre a freaking weirdo.
Can these men actually hear themselves?
“Porn is an extremely easy and over paid job. Punishment and pain will come with any easy job you decide to take.”
He is saying that being tortured is easy.
He can watch the video above of a woman being abused, then say she had it easy.
To him, women aren’t real people (like him), women can be tortured and it means nothing.
Also, porn is not well paid, most women don’t last six months in the (LA based) porn industry, and those that do last longer than six months have to prostitute on the side to make ends meet.
“Everyone likes porn. If you don’t youre a freaking weirdo.”
Men like watching women being tortured and then calling it fun – I’m not the weirdo here.
I find men that watch porn are quite high up on the psychopathic scale. They do not empathise with women or children which is why they can watch women or children being subject to sexual treatment that would hurt the viewer if done to them. The its all fantasy is their get out of jail card for ‘ no, we’re not bad people who hate women or children because we were told we are superior … And yet theres women that are smarter and children that answer back …. Makes psychos angry and porn is where they work that rage off.
Yes, there is an extreme inability to empathise displayed by the type of men who leave that kind of comment here.
The only reason they don’t get deleted is because I want other women to see them and to understand what ‘normal’ men think of them.
[Four hours of fart noises]
Ahhh, are you trying to talk Loren? Keep practising, its comes to us in time …
Look, these women knew what they were getting into and if they didn’t like the work conditions they should’ve handed back their checks and got the fuck out of there. Women are not human. They are posessessions and things and its really their own fault for being so materialistic. Cougers and chubby women are right bitches are too stuck up and lets face it porn is far more affordable than paying women as you go along for ungarenteed sex. As for that bitch that got her ass hurt, sorry that happened to her but than again what the fuck was that fuckwit doing agreeing to an ass fucking scene when she never got her ass fucked before? That was really stupid on her part and we’re supposed to shut down porn for drooling retards like that? The spoiled feminists can go blow a goat. Fuck those motherfucking fucks.
If anybody wants to ban porn in the U.S.-oh be my guest if you want a flood of rapes and sex slavery to replace it. Yeah, those things already happen right now. But prohibit porn nationwide and our current statistics won’t be shit as compared to the massive increase of it after that stupid act is done.
But than again maybe we should replace porn with Biblical laws where all you have to do to get a woman is rape her, pay her father off and have her as a wife, thereafter. Look, bitches what it comes down to is this, don’t go to the law. If anybody hurts you get a gun and kill them. Get your shit together and use your motherfucking head. Let vengeance be yours and maybe, just maybe you’ll finally have my respect. Until then, get fucked.
Men hate women, and they are happy to let us know it.
This video made me want to vomit. I have never understood gangbang/violent porn. I’ll admit I do like watching some nice one on one, but if it gets violent in any way it is so nauseating…
I think I’m done with porn. This shit is disgusting.
Yeah, like, thanks, but not really? I’m not handing out head-pats for ‘bad porn is bad’ comments, but I hope you were genuine about giving up all porn.
“Head pats” ? What am I…5? No I don’t need your “thanks but not really” and yes, I am genuine.
Thank you for the clarification.
You cunts are fucking dumb, this stupid bitch is just a fucking baby, she’s the only one who has had these problems, she should have found a better set to work on or dont work in porn at all, stupid cunt.
Gavyn,
You are a woman-hater who is so porn-sick you can’t even see violence against women any more. If you think the video above is the only instance of violence your porn use has completely destroyed your ability to empathise with women.
You are such a misogynist that you have no problem using you own (very easy to google) name when defending violent porn.
Just wish the authorities would deal with the fact that gender terrorism, of the sort that this man has just exhibited, is the driver of domestic violence. Sexism, like racism and homophobia is fatal not funny as men portray it. I hope this man doesnt have a girlfriend, mother, sister, or daughter as hes toxic and dangerous
Gavyn isn’t a man, he is a 15-year-old boy, and with a bit of googling I know his mother’s name, and his two siblings. The only reason I’m not putting all this out in a blog post is because there’s one other Gavyn Muench on Facebook too. If I had been able to find an email address for his mother, I would be sending her a link to his comment.
Perhaps cut and paste his comments and post them on his facebook page? I certainly think he should be reported to his friends/family for making gender hate speech as boys dont grow out of sexism, they grow into it and he will become more dangerous the older he gets.
I’m not on Facebook, if you are please feel free!
In China Porn is ILLEGAL! Yet we call this fascism! Is this the sort of thing that democracy and freedom protects?!!!
Chinese society is not western society (American society, British society, Canadian society, take your pick), minus hard-core pornography, and adding hard-core pornography to China will not magically turn it into a thriving democracy (as if we actually have those in the west). Also, removing hard-core pornography from western society will not magically turn it into a dictatorship.
I wouldn’t dream of ‘speaking for’ the Chinese people, but I think it’s a safe bet to say that democracy campaigners in China have bigger things to worry about than masturbatory material – little things like press censorship and bureaucratic corruption.
I suggest you read Orwell’s 1984. In it the absolute dictatorship distributes pornography to the masses, who think they are receiving contraband, it helps keep them docile.
I also suggest you actually read what I have already written on the subject of censorship.
I love seeing girls and older women being sexually dominated and used to most extremes I enjoy watching this kind of porn and I think a lot of men do we are somewhat sadistic creatures
Men hate women
I’m a 45 year old man who was indoctrinated into pornography through my dad’s Playboy magazines. I’ve never felt I was addicted to porn as I could stop viewing it for long periods of time. Yet I would come back to it and hate myself for it. Now I know from other anti-porn websites as well as this one how much porn hurts the people involved in the industry and how it affects the viewer and society. I still have a ways to go, but any time I feel the urge to consume porn I will remember that porn has wrecked many lives. Keep up the good work.
Eddie, thank you for your comment and thank you for sharing your experience.
And yet these sluts take all that money then cry foul when they don’t get their way. If you don’t like the porn then don’t do it. I jacked off to this twice.
First, women don’t get a lot of money in porn, the idea that they do is a myth (women in the LA porn industry have to prostitute to survive financially).
Second, where would your violent degrading porn come from if women could just walk away from violent degrading scenes?
You admit that you are a misogynist, who masturbates to violence against women, then blame the victim for not just walking away. Do you actually think any woman would do porn like that if they didn’t desperately need the money?
Why do you hate woman so much? How is it possible for you to get sexual pleasure from the suffering of another human being?
That video has to be one of the most degrading thing that I have ever seen. It is appalling that anyone is treated in such a manner whether male or female. I wish I could say that I have never seen any porn but that would be untrue. What I can say is that I will never see any again. This has cured my porn addiction in less than 5 minutes. Thanks for sharing this video and please keep up the good work.
Thank you for your comment Anonymous
[four hours of fart noises]
Sickening. I nearly cried. What I saw was appalling nothing less then disgusting. Women are the lifeline to this world. The most beautiful things we were blessed with. But why do they except these jobs??!! They’re nothing like Jews in the holocauste! They had to apply to work for these companies every company. That’s what these companies do. They falsely advertise a safe,clean, an discreet workplace or your standard modeling. They do that because if they said “so ms. Jane doe we are going to torture you mentally, sexually, and physically until your a robot. For hours on end over an over. Repeatedly. Then we will pay so it’s fine.” No one would do it. These women agree to contracts. Point blank period. They put they’re selves in the office with the boss an agreed to a certain contract. Maybe they should have job hunted else where. Or you know what at the end of the day they can leave. They have cars they actually make better yearly salaries than the majority of people. Upwards of $1000.00 a day. Maybe they’re too greedy for they’re own good. But I agree with Shelly lubben completely. She said it her self on you tube. “Shut the porn industry down until they’re in compliance like you would every other workplace in California. ” she’s seen it first hand. I follow her a lot on the web. Her videos saved me from what I watched. I never did like violent porn. But porn is porn. She helped me. An even she just asks for regulation not a ban. Or to permanently shut down the industry. The men In these videos, or any man for this matter that acts this way towards women is not a man at all. He’s a coward. He’s insecure about his status in the world an feels he needs to abuse what he considers the weak. So there for they are bullies an cowards. An they lack social skills. They’re often abused an under educated drug addicts. They’re scared little boys on the inside. They do this to feel better. They are dead wrong. An they will pay for every thing they do to these poor women. But nobody went door to door an rounded these women up. Get real. These women are drug addicts a majority of the time too. You can’t blame the male species period. There is too many playing factors to this. Plus without us men. You’re nothing just like men are without our beautiful women of the world all of them. Women deserve the world. An equal status. Never should a woman be subjected to such torture. They need to know that they put their selves there though. I’m not saying once they’re there an have been subjected to tons of this violence an torture they’re not scared to leave. I’m sure they are. But why did they let it go to this. It had to start small like domestic violence. 97% of the time it starts small pushing, grabbing etc. you can’t tell me they kidnapped these women. An just went full ignorant Neanderthal right off the get go. I hope I didn’t offend but look at the big picture before blaming the male species period. We are all equal. Or should be.
Jesse,
You need to do a bit more research and get your facts together.
Women in porn are not ‘greedy’, or in any way to blame for the abuse and manipulation they have suffered – I don’t know where you got your “Jews in the holocauste” thing from, but it is not a comparison I have made, nor would I make such an offensive comparison.
Women in porn may be paid what looks like a lot of money (compared to minimum wage), but that type of pay is only available once or twice while the women are still new to the industry and ‘amateur’, after that they have to do more and more extreme and violent porn to survive economically. See:
New ‘girls’ to the industry are literally picked up straight off the bus in LA by their manager/pimps, so no, they don’t necessarily have their own transportation, or anywhere to go.
You seem to recognise that women end up in the porn industry through vulnerability, and to recognise that there is manipulation and naivety involved as well, but still want to blame the victims, this is not acceptable, and it certainly is not feminist.
“An even she just asks for regulation not a ban. Or to permanently shut down the industry”
Please see this blog post to see what my preferred legal approach to porn is:
Proper regulation of the porn industry would shut it down, because it would be impossible to both protect workers rights, and produce the kinds of images that are now the mainstream of het porn. This is why the porn industry lobbyists fight tooth and nail against any regulation, including mandatory condom use, and age verification on porn performers.
“The men In these videos, or any man for this matter that acts this way towards women is not a man at all. He’s a coward.”
Unfortunately no, ‘real men’ and ‘normal men’ commit sexual violence against women and children (and other men) all the time. This is what rape culture means, a culture where ‘real rape’ is falsely seen as something only committed by aberrations and outliers.
“They’re often abused an under educated drug addicts.”
Again no, nice middle-class white men and boys commit sexual violence all the time, they are just more likely to get away with it.
“You can’t blame the male species period.”
I can and I will, this is patriarchy, all men benefit from patriarchy (some more than others based on intersections of class and race), with out patriarchy, the porn industry wouldn’t exist, so yes, I am going to blame men and blame patriarchy.
“Plus without us men. You’re nothing just like men are without our beautiful women of the world all of them. Women deserve the world”
This is called ‘benevolent patriarchy’, you can look it up.
“you can’t tell me they kidnapped these women.”
In the particular example above, no, she wasn’t kidnapped, poverty and other manipulations put women and girls into harms way all the time. But also remember, any filmed rape is porn, and women and children trafficked into prostitution are used to make porn all the time.
“We are all equal. Or should be.”
I am a radical feminist, I am not interested in equality with men, I am interested in liberating women from male oppression.
We are already equal, on paper, in the global north, and yet the abuse of women and girls is still at epidemic levels.
Which men should I make myself equal to? The rapists, the pimps, the pornographers? The war-mongers, the business men who destroy the environment?
Jesse, when i was a schoolgirl we had pimps that posed as befrienders outside my school, my father took the side of sexist boyfriends of mine against my human rights, my brother made up false rape accusations about me to discredit me when i spoke out about our fathers lies and violence towards our mother. Sexist hate crime in the home is largely guys trying to beat their wives and daughters out of their basic human rights. Porn is media promotion of gender hatred and terrorism. Terrorists are anti equality and anti humanity and have no respect for victims rights so please dont act like they do. These guys are snakes.
This post and the comments by men just reinforce the notion that men do hate women. Knowing this fact has made my life very interesting.
Just today as I was getting into an elevator a drunk guy made sexually inappropriate comments to me. I was thinking to myself ‘does he know what he’s saying?’
Then I realized it didn’t matter if he knew what he was doing or not. He was expressing his deep hatred for me. He didn’t see me as human, just as a sexual object that he was going to try and dominate with sexual threats and language.
I realized that he never saw me as a human deserving of rights. He saw me as inferior.
Knowing what I know about men at this stage in my life has simplified it. I only look at women out in public. I do not speak to men. I do not look at men. I will only engage with women.
Derrington, House Mouse Queen, thank you for your comments.
This is a late comment, I’m sorry. I am a woman and a lesbian who was watching and looking at porn (of the lesbian variety, of course). I want to say thank you to radical feminists as you explained to me what was bad about it. You’ll think I’m thick but I honestly did not quite understand. I stopped since then.
Thank you for your comment.
Better late than never. I think you’ll find that many radical feminists started out as liberal feminists who bought into the ’empowerment’ and ‘freedom’ lines completely; they stopped when the logical dissonance became too much.
Thank you so much for uploading this. I didn’t want to watch so I only listened, but honestly even that was enough to send shivers down my spine. I have never watched any porn but several friends of mine, male and female, do and even view it as empowering for women. If only they could see the lie they’ve been sold.
Hello,
There are plenty of written posts on this site as well, they should help you hone your anti-porn arguments.
I would love to get payed for making a sex film. I mean look what happened with kim kardashion. And that guy that said “who wouldn’t want to have sex for a living?” i agree. Except not everyone thinks that. Anyway these girls do have a choice to say no, its diffrent for prostitutes though. Prostitutes are always isolted and have no communication with anyone. The people holding them are huge gang members or just a ilegal orginization not directors. When they go home call the fucking cops i get that you might be scarred but in the end when you call them those people wont be able to hurt you especially with films like these clearly showing evidence of rape. And why dont you call the cops in the pople of the vids too. Just go to the cops simple. And if you like it then good for you after all it is your body and you can do what ever you wan with it. But the girl in the first clip there was nothing wrong with that. She seemed to be getting lots of support and they were helping her after she told them she was scarred. she even stated that she knew she was acting but they were treating her bad she could stop at any time if she wants. And if this is truly happening then let there be a full on investigation to stop it and make it a better enviorment for porn stars to work in.
Assuming you are not a guy pretending to be a woman (men love to pretend to be women and talk about how much they love porn and violent sex etc etc), you are being very very naive; and if you are a woman, I hope you are never naive enough to ever actually end up on a porn set.
Women in porn are not ‘having sex for a living’, they are being subjected to violent and degrading sex acts in return for money. The conditions on porn sets are often coercive, even if a contract is signed, something else happens on set, and being isolated on a set full of men, in a house out in the middle of nowhere is not ‘supported’. As for going to the police, women are routinely not believed when they say they were raped, a woman who was not forced onto a porn set at gun point would never be believed or taken seriously. Also, women trapped in prostitution may be illegal immigrants, and in lots of countries, including the US, they may be criminalised themselves, or their abusers may be paying off the police, so ‘just go to the cops!’ is hopelessly naive as well.
The mainstream of het porn could not be made without abuse, the filmed abuse is what men want, to really ‘clean up’ the industry would make porn production impossible.
I really do hope you are a porn-sick man, because the lack of empathy you show for the women being abused in porn is shocking. How is anything you saw in those clips even remotely ok? (and what, exactly, was the ‘help and support’ being offered by the men on the porn sets?)
In the first clip the woman is clearly in physical pain and traumatised; she is almost collapsing in shock. It’s called the thousand-yard stare after solders experiencing shell-shock in WWII:
I suggest you read up more about women’s real experiences of porn, and get past your own porn-sick fantasies:
http://www.feministcurrent.com/2015/06/04/hot-girls-wanted-for-a-month-or-two/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/may/22/iraq.comment
Very naive comment
I really do worry that this really is a young woman who can watch the above video and see nothing all that bad happening. It’s bad enough that young men are mainlining violent porn since childhood and thereby losing their ability to empathise and even see violence, but if young women are following in that trend we are in a lot of trouble.
I’m afraid we’re in a lot of trouble.
That video is gut wrenching. Every porn star who has left and spoke out against the industry all have the same exact story. (Shelley Lubben, Jersey Jaxin, Belladonna, Jessie Rogers, Penny Flame ect. Even Nina Hartley has talked about how violent and degrading modern porn is. With that being said, MANY of these abused girls still end up staying in the industry for years. You can only play the “its all those evil men’s fault” so many times. (Same with blacks blaming whites for all their ills) Where does personal responsibility come into play? Shelley Lubben herself was in the industry for EIGHT YEARS! That’s right – almost a decade. People can only treat you the way you allow yourself to be treated. It’s hard to feel sorry for people that see this kind of abuse day in and day out and abandon any shred of self respect, dignity or morals they might have and WILLINGLY subject themselves to the same for years on end. And then claim they’re a victim. And @Bastet, I agree with you. Anyone with even the slightest knowledge of porn knows that 70’s/80’s porn was very, very different and not at all in the same category as the shit today. The classic porn stars like Seka, Anette Haven, Vanessa Del Rio, Kay Parker, Ginger Lynn, Marilyn Chambers (RIP) have all stated that they had a blast, that they all took care of each other back then (for the most part) and that they have absolutely no regrets. Erik Edwards has stated that they were basically just having fun and experimenting, coming out of the ultra conservative and sexually repressed 50’s and 60’s. And lastly, @antiplondon, you say ALL men are the same and claimed that one thought everyone should think like him, but that’s exactly how you acted when Basten didn’t agree with you that all pornography is bad.
This is some pretty disgusting victim blaming. Women stay in abusive situations because they have nowhere else to go, women who end up in the sex industry due to poverty or mental illness or drug addiction (or end up with these problems due to being in the sex industry) have even fewer choices when it comes to leaving, and even fewer opportunities when it comes to other employment opportunities afterwards (especially when they have a gap in their CV and the porn they were in circulating on the internet).
Also, women are manipulated and coerced on porn sets, they are put into situations where they feel like they can’t say no, because that will mean not getting paid, and never working again. They sign a contract saying one thing, and end up being faced with a different situation once they are on a porn set. The women in the Hot Girls Wanted documentary described feeling afraid and feeling like they couldn’t say no.
A hand-full of porn performers from the 70s/80s isn’t a very convincing argument to me, what else are/were they going to say when they are still reliant on the sex industry for their income? Also, a male porn performer stating that everyone was ‘just having fun’ is not convincing evidence to me, I’m sure he, personally, was having a great time, but men are very good at ignoring women’s pain and distress (just look at the comment thread here).
Linda Lovelace, the ‘star’ of Deep Throat, the most famous porn film ever made, was forced into the sex industry by her violent husband/pimp, who held a gun to her head and forced her to have sex with a dog – the idea that the sex industry used to be better is an apologist fantasy.
I talk about men as a political and social class, spare me the ~not all men~ whining. I defend my arguments and I defend them well, if you want to be childish and say that’s me ~telling people what to think~ that’s your intellectual loss, not mine.
lindsay, are you Bastet (or were you just too lazy to read further down the comment thread)? Looking back at that conversation, she didn’t mention ‘old’ porn once, just made claims about ‘theoretical porn’ that she couldn’t back up; I wrote detailed, sourced replies to her statements, she couldn’t/wouldn’t reply to what I said.
Lindsay, I was raped a number of times whilst a child and was too scared to tell my family as I knew that they would blame me as I was the female. When I finally told them about the violence I had experienced at the hands of various men, they, just like you, blamed the victim as opposed to dealing with the perpetrators. Its called chauvinism/sexism/misogyny. I havent seen or spoken to them in 10 years now. Women know that if they speak out about male violence, it is they that go on trial, in the same way that if black people speak out about white violence, it they who go on trial. Same with Jews in Nazi Germany, Muslims in Bosnia, etc etc etc. Hierarchacal violence is very difficult to report as the bullies run the system. Pornography is a system of propoganda, eroticised, to make the racism, sexism, child abuse, animal abuse look fashionably exciting and natural since sex is natural. You state that the porn stars of old took care of each other – why would they need to take care of each other if the environment they were working in was as benign as you argue. I do not need to take care of myself in Sainsburys since it is a benign environment, I do however take care of myself when walking down a badly lit street late at night or when in a bar and think my drink may be spiked by those relentlessly nice people called men. Not all men are bastards but that’s not what this thread is about, it is dealing with the people that propogate and promote a form of media that enforces social hierarchy by rewarding the viewer with an orgasm whilst partaking in it.
Oneclickboedicea, thank you very much for your brilliant comment and thank you for sharing your experiences.
(as a side-note, WordPress seems to be allowing people to post comments as ‘replies’ so that they appear out of time-order in the thread – I can’t actually see any ‘reply’ option, even though I’m logged in to WordPress!)
I’ll also add, even though I’ve said it over and over again on this blog, the sex industry is a pyramid with a very broad base, the fact that you can name a handful of women at the top of the pyramid doesn’t prove much.
The current blow-up in the porn industry over the ‘revelation’ that the famous male porn performer James Deen is a rapist, shows just how dangerous and exploitative even the ‘respectable’ end of the industry is.
The truth is our strongest weapon. xx
Antiplondon, your a pathetic feminazi that chastises ANYONE who doesn’t agree with you. Your identical to blacks who blame “whitey” for abandoning their families, killing each other, not valuing education ect (I suppose I’ll also be labeled “racist” for telling the truth, huh) you brought up Linda Lovelace. Erik Edwards states in an interview that regardless of what she claimed later, SHE came to HIM to do more porn. Even if she was WAS coorced, that’s one woman. Virtually every other 70’s/80’s porn star has nothing bad to say, with the exception of Traci Lords, who realized she could play the victim since she was underage and get herself a b movie career due to the public ‘ s sympathy. Ron Jeremy, Nina Hartley, Veronica Hart and MANY others however, talk about what a conniving, manipulative little bitch she was. The fact that she still makes money off her one legal porn film, “Traci, I love you”, and legally changed her name to her porn name, proves it. As far as modern day porn stars, I realize that alot of them are pushed to do things they don’t want to do, but they have to sign contracts and model releases and MANY are well aware of the disgusting acts they have to do…and still do it. For years and years and years on end, at that. How in the fuck can you sympathize with someone that willingly allows themselves to be degraded over and over and over again? In your feminazi mind, all the women are poor victims (despite the fact that they think sucking cock and being penetrated in every hole possible sounds like a brilliant career plan) however, I don’t have the hatred of men that you do (I have a husband of 13 years that treats me like a princess because….well, I’m a respectable woman with a respectable career that demands respect. Anyways, I look objectively and realistically at the porn industry. You and other feminazi anti-porn activists can preach and scream and yell and cry as loud as you want, as long as their are girls out there WILLING to be cum on by 25 different men,be spit on, called filthy names, have their heads dunked in toilets, have weird devices inserted into their mouths, pussies and asses ect, (I know, I know, they are all “victims”-just like all blacks are “victims” of evil whitey holding them down) the porn industry will continue to thrive and men will never respect us. What I’m saying is, women are LARGELY responsible for our own suffering. If you put your biased, feminizi agenda to the side, you would see this. Instead, you paint all men as being evil and uncaring when they are just opportunistists ( which is human nature) willing to take what many women give up so easily. And Lastly, you said “a handful” of 70/80’s porn stars saying they had a blast isn’t convincing for you, but you then mentioned only ONE as a counter argument. Lol seriously though, go ahead and search for 70’s/80’s porn stars who have spoken against the industry. I defy you to find ANY outside of Traci Lords and Linda Lovelace! And how in the fuck are the classic porn stars still benefitting from the Industry when Asia Carerra, a 90’s porn star, was so fucking broke that her fans were sending her money just to survive? One last thing – many porn stars, including Belladonna, one of the dirtiest and nastiest performers ever, ADMIT to coming from religious/ and or middle class homes with loving parents. How do you spin this into “poor, poor victim with nowhere to turn”? How do you spin this into “evil man, poor, oppressed, victimized, innocent woman”? And @ oneclickboedicea, I’m sorry that you were raped, but what does that have to do with women that SIGN CONTRACTS to have 3 dicks in their pussy AND ass at the same time????
Lindsay,
You are a deranged, racist misogynist.
I am leaving your disgusting, woman hating, victim blaming comment up so everyone can see what a hateful human being you are.
There is plenty of evidence on this blog on how women are coerced on porn sets, and how contracts are not respected (even though the idea that someone can give meaningful consent to be abused is absurd).
The reason we don’t hear from women who were victimised in porn in the 70’s and 80’s is because those women have disappeared from public view and are better off staying anonymous, why would they speak out now?
Your mentioning Asia Carerra from the 90’s just proves my point about only the few at the top of the pyramid actually benefitting long term from the porn industry.
Also, I don’t give a shit what any pornographer or male porn star has to say about the porn industry, of course they are going to say everything was fine, what else are they going to say?
I will say it again, since you obviously weren’t paying attention before, I have never said every woman in porn is a victim, the sex industry is a pyramid with a very broad base.
Tell me Lindsay, why do you hate women so much that you think that talking about men’s violence against women is somehow equivalent to genocide? How did it come about that you are so familiar with pornography, and all the juicy details, when you are such a ‘respectable woman’ yourself? How is it that you ended up on this specific page, a page that gets a large number of hits from men searching for violent porn?
Pussies and asses … lindsay sounds like a man, not a respectable princess me thinks …
The bottom line is, you just cannot STAND a differing opinion than your own. Look at the comments, antiplondon. You argue with EVERY SINGLE PERSON that doesn’t agree 100% with you and accuse us all of being women – hating misogynistic men masquerading as women. You even went off on Bastet , who you accused me of being, who basically agreed with you, but said that all porn is not bad, violent and degrading. You have failed to understand anyone ‘s points but your own and those that agree COMPLETELY with you due to your unhealthy, almost obsessive, all – consuming hatred of men and radical feminism. Please try to put that aside for just a second. Did I not say that the video was gut wrenching? HOWEVER, it’s hard to sympathize with women that stay in the industry for years and years and years, (like Shelley Lubben, the woman speaking in the video who was in the industry for 8 long years), knowing full well what happens. I mean, Jesus christ, when does it become “I made some bad decisions and own up to it” instead of “waaaaaaaaaaaah, men treated me badly and abused me because….well, I allowed them to, but I am somehow still a victim, despite the fact that I let men continue degrading me that I knew were abusive years ago”. Personal responsibility, antiplondon. Personal responsibility. Most of the women that are now speaking out against the industry were in it for AT LEAST 10 years. You know the saying, “fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me”? The same rule applies here. At least if your not blinded by radical feminism. If you want to make porn stars victims, how about serial killers? You can use many of the same excuses for them. Most had horrendous childhoods. Are you going out of your way to defend THEM? Of course not. Most of them aren’t women. Its interesting to note as well, that a majority of women speaking out decided to do so when they were older, their looks started fading, and they weren’t fresh faces or much in demand anymore. I am NOT saying their lying, I am just wondering why it takes so many of them being “washed up” before they start speaking out and deciding that porn wasn’t so great, after all. You also mention not giving a shit what male porn stars have to say, but since when are Nina Hartley, Veronica Hart and Christy Canyon (another female performer that said Traci Lords was a liar and manipulator) “men”? As far as the 70/80’s porn stars, many are still very much in the public eye, yet haven’t uttered a peep about the industry. You just don’t like because it’s not what YOU would prefer. One look at your comments shows that you simply cannot handle anyone with a different viewpoint. You pick arguments with EVERYBODY, and your very much like a christian in that you expect all women to have a group – think mentality. If we don’t think exactly as you do, you accuse us of being misogynistic men. You’ve done this with every single comment that disagrees with you. Every single. One. As for why I know so much about porn, it’s because I watch it and i’m not ashamed of that because YOU think I should be. I have a huge collection of mostly old school porn and I enjoy it very much, (and no, my husband doesn’t watch it. He hates porn) As a matter of fact, if you look at the statistics or go to a convention, you would know that half of all porn watchers/fans are indeed women. Porn stars are always talking about how couples/women come up to them and tell them how their sex life has been improved by their movies. As far as your suggestion that I got here by searching for violent porn is childish, laughable and oh so predictable. I do NOT watch violent porn, but if I did, there are lots and lots of sites I could go to. In closing, I want to ask you a question. Why do you think many men are the way they are with women? Could it be because women have made it incredibly easy for them? It was very different in the 40’s and 50’s when women were ladylike, and actually enjoyed being wives and mothers. But we decided that wasn’t what we wanted, and the sexual revolution and “women’s lib” came, which was good in alot of ways, but it also gave women free rein to dress, look and act like sluts, and men’s respect for us went right out the fucking window. I stand by what I said about women being the cause of our own misery. I’m not going to be politically correct so you can feel better about trying to convince yourself that those “evil men” are the cause of all our problems. The truth hurts, but you have to accept things before you can correct them. You have called me “misogynistic”, and “racist” for speaking the truth here, but that’s okay. The truth will always be the truth, whether you accept or like it. Continue living in your bubble and playing the blame game but just know that things will never change that way. I am certainly not the only person on here, male OR female, that has mentioned how these women have a choice, but you don’t want to hear it. You have an answer and an excuse for everything, and when you dont, you resort to name calling. People who are not blinded by a certain agenda know that when there are not women that are willing to abandon all dignity and do depraved sexual acts on camera – again and again, (for a few hundred dollars) that the porn industry will cease to exist.
Yes Lindsay, I disagree with people who disagree with me, that is what having and defending an opinion is about.
You really are deranged, comparing a victim of the sex industry with a serial killer! Do you even understand what words mean?
“You pick arguments with EVERYBODY”
This is my blog you moron, I’m not forcing anyone to read it, let alone leave comments here. People come to this blog and leave comments disagreeing with me, I can either defend my point of view, or I can delete the comments.
“One look at your comments shows that you simply cannot handle anyone with a different viewpoint.”
This is hilarious, since you obviously can’t stand me expressing and defending my opinions – at least I am honest, I think I’m right, I’m not going to pretend otherwise. You obviously think you are right, but somehow think accusing other people of thinking they are right is some kind of an argument. Everyone can’t be right, this isn’t picking your favourite flavour of ice cream, this isn’t about your personal preferences.
You really are absolutely clueless if you think there was less violence against women in the 40’s and 50’s – women put up with domestic violence because they had nowhere to go, women fleeing domestic violence would be returned to their husbands by the police or locked up in a mental institution; only upper-class women could afford to divorce; marital rape only became illegal in the UK in the 90’s.
And cite your sources for 50% of active porn consumers being women, because even self-proclaimed ‘feminist’ pornographers say women just aren’t consuming porn.
I looked at the Wikipedia page on the ‘Golden Age’ of porn, it lists 34 people who are considered worthy of being included, of those, 18 are women, one of whom is Linda Lovelace, so that’s 17 women who had a ‘great time’ and maybe made a long-term career of it. Are we really supposed to believe that there were only 18 women working in the US based porn industry in the 70’s and 80’s?
To illustrate the point I made previously about the lack of options for women experiencing domestic violence before the women’s liberation movement, see this interview with Clarissa Dickson Wright:
[…]
The mental institutions were the go to weapon for locking away women and children suffering male supremicist violence in the home. In the 1980s 80,000 people, mainly women were released from mental hospitals who had been falsely locked up as victims of rape, child abuse and male sexist violence in the home. Most had been locked away for years, been used as drug guinea pigs or given ect to fry away their testimony of being raped by men as children. I wonder what lib feminisms response to this history is? Male supremacy is on the march again, eroticising it within porn and covering up its history of violence, torture, murder and slavery as it goes. Magdalene laundries had nothing on the mental health system in the uk, which allowed jimmy saville to rape with impunity, whilst threatening his victims with institutionalisation. Men act as gatekeepers to this knowledge. God help women breaking the omerta.
http://tehbewilderness.tumblr.com/post/136502672764/notcisjustwoman-coldhearted-icequeen-freud
This reminds me of some of the men who have commented on this post:
http://nextyearsgirl.tumblr.com/post/138254536825/klefable-klefable-why-do-nerds-on-this
Where’s the video gone?
I came into this site with the search “porn sexism”, and now I’m holding on to it as it’s giving me the little impulse I needed to leave my porn page frequenting finally behind. So, thank you.
If I am a callous tedious misoginist and a waste of space then I am; I’m not claiming anything. Trying to become better over time.
I mean to read the different threads in the following weeks, so I don’t know everything that’s here and besides what I’m going to say is idle comment. And the idle comment begins like that: what you’re attacking is a little piece of a whole system of domination and violence. To begin with, not only women are victims of this system (which they obviosly are); also men, as, at least in Spain, at all ages below 90, death rates among men are between twice and thrice those of women. It also kills people of both sexes through car accidents, as the model for driving is the men’s way, which is more dangerous than the women’s way.
Perhaps if so many people are getting sick and dying, also among the oppressing gender, it means that we are relating to each other in a way that generates a lot of pain.
Also, there’s a lot of talk in this site about ‘men’ who hate ‘women’ and ‘women’ who have to defend themselves from ‘men’. Even there was a woman who said she wasn’t speaking to any man anymore. Perhaps it’s not enough stressed (I haven’t read it all, I repeat) that, at least biologically, men and women are not two distinct sets of people, but two extremes of a continuum. We are all somewhere along the continuum and those who stand in the middle area will face problems in life or will be mutilated as babies to fit in the mold, even if they are perfectly healthy. So, maybe ‘men’ and ‘women’ are being presented as antagonistic parties when in fact the distinction between both is problematic, and when the common notions about what’s a man and what’s a woman should be challenged and overcome.
Then, if sexual ascription is not a yes or no thing, and if behind it all each one of us is an individual, it means we’re taught to be men and women. The model of woman is naked, passive and receptive. The model of man is an asshole wearing a mask and having a lot of fun killing people from behind a machine. All this can be seen, for example, through commercials and toys (I mean toys for children). And, then, if men are taught to be killing machines it’s because there is a war industry and finally from the gender thing we get to the way the whole world is being run.
I didn’t mean to make this so long…
I’m no expert and haven’t studied the matter, but I know from sources outside myself that these issues exist. I had the feeling that the theme of this site connects with all this. Sorry if it sounds like I’m giving a conference, I have a tendence to sound that way. Perhaps I only wanted to share. Really I wouldn’t dig too much into my own psychology.
Hope you’re not disgusted by my presence. Nice page.
Well, thanks, I guess, for letting me know the video was gone, I’ve replaced it now – but no thanks for the long rambling comment, would it have killed you to come up with a succinct argument first?
“Perhaps it’s not enough stressed (I haven’t read it all, I repeat) that, at least biologically, men and women are not two distinct sets of people, but two extremes of a continuum.”
No, we are a sexually dimorphic species, that’s how babies are made. Yes, people with disorders of sexual development (DSD, a more accurate term than ‘intersex’, which people conflate with ‘hermaphrodite’, and assume means a ‘third sex’) do exist (and how such individuals are treated medically is a very important human rights issue), but they are less than 1% of the population, and do not disprove that we are a sexually dimorphic species, any more than blind people disprove we are a sighted species.
Women are oppressed under patriarchy, we are oppressed as a class, for being female, ‘gender’ (ie sex-stereotyped roles) is the means of our oppression.
Lots of men are powerless, but no men are oppressed, as men, under patriarchy. Masculinity is toxic, but masculinity was not invented by women in order to harm men, men are the main reinforcers of masculinity, and masculinity harms women more than it harms men.
Hello again.
I feel it was wrong of me to send the previous post. I’m sorry I took your time and attention. Thanks for your reply, though. Made me think.
Consult your own preferences as to keeping my post or removing it. I know I can’t read it again.
My admiration for the work you’re doing and good luck!
Thank you Xavi. I am happy to answer questions that are asked in good faith.
Thank you for finding this. I have worked w sex trafficking victims since 2009. This video is the only one Ive found that truly exposes the reality of the women suffering. I “lost” it for years when it was taken off YouTube. Tomorrow (thanks to your website) i will be showing it ti 30 college males who are addicted to porn but their Christian faith compels them to want to change. This video will convict some and that means less women will be consumed and abused.
Hi Christina, I am glad this blog is helpful to you.
[…] What projects like ‘Mums Make Porn’ miss is that even ‘better’ porn still objectifies and commodifies sexuality, and also ignores the addictive nature of porn, requiring more, and more extreme, images. It also makes the common, mainstream, assumption that men are simply consuming ‘bad’ porn by mistake, because there isn’t any ‘good’ porn available (a similar apology is made for male sexual violence, that poor men simply don’t understand when they are raping someone). If ‘good’ porn were commercially viable, it would already exist, and higher production value porn already exists. […]
jussayin
you say like, i need porn, cause woman reject me in real live etc.
That is bullshit ( i reply to justsayin )
I also haven’t had seks, in a very, very long time….
But i dont give a fuck….I dont have a ‘right’ on seks….Are you
a child or something, begging for candy ?
i tried to date some woman, but they rejected me. Thats the way of the world. Woman can reject us, thats the way it is, thats justice, you know. If they reject you, try harder, or stop trying, accept your situation or anything. But they owe you nothing !
porn is a bad alternative. For you, and for the porn performers.
i can be happy, without watching porn, you know. It isn’t that special at all haha. My phantasies are hotter, than porn can show me !
when i watched porn, before i knew it is evil, it always gave me a shitty taste in the mouth. I was like, something isn’t right, something doesn’t smell right. We humans, can sense these subtle kind of signs.
You can masturbate, by yourself. 99 of the population, masturbates….
you don’t need porn to masturbate. Actually, porn turns to erection difficulties ! Men watching porn, sometimes have a hard time, getting an erection ! So, actually, it ruins your seks live, on a very basic, primal level haha.
[…] I have used one of the same images of a shell-shocked soldier Knowland does, to illustrate a point about the abuse of women in the porn industry: […]